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Old 02-06-2012, 11:31 AM   #16
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Re: 3/6: bottom pair on the flop

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Originally Posted by ...one... View Post
im not sure what i was or wasnt thinking in my original post but u have a bluff catch an against vil thatll bluff off... let em
If he's raising any K or pocket pair >66 preflop, the only hands that beat you are 6's with a better kicker. This means you have close to the nuts and you want to bluff catch. What are you betting on this flop?
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:41 AM   #17
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Re: 3/6: bottom pair on the flop

y bet when vill bets 4 us?
how many hands will vil call all3 streets with that we beat?
how many will he bet? im asuming he bets more than calls
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:20 AM   #18
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Re: 3/6: bottom pair on the flop

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y bet when vill bets 4 us?
how many hands will vil call all3 streets with that we beat?
how many will he bet? im asuming he bets more than calls
Because you're still going to get action on this board. He'll call Q7+, J7+, T7+, 97+, 87. It's a temping board to attack, and this guy sounds like the type that we can bet to induce bluff raises. He won't call the river with much worse(22-55, 6x), but we make a lot from these hands before the river. Now if this hand goes down and I don't get any action then next time I induce bluffs. Make sure to pretend you're thinking about folding the flop before you call. If you instantly call the flop he might get scared that you're going to showdown.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:50 AM   #19
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I disregard the KK on board and call this hand top pair on the flop. I bet the flop
I think betting this KK6 flop into 4 other players with a 6 is not a good idea. People like to play kings.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:29 AM   #20
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Hey McStever, I haven't read the other replies, so apologies if it's been covered. This is a tough spot: 4 other limpers, they can have literally anything, then villain bet into 4 players on a paired board knowing people play almost any king.

Some numbers: after drop the pot has 4sb on the flop, it'll cost us 2.5BB to call down to win the 2BB in the pot plus the 1 or 2BB more villian will put in for a total of 3-4BB.

Now, when villian is bluffing with overs to the 6 he'll hit his cards 24% by the river so there goes close to 1BB from our 3-4BB potential winnings. So IF villian is bluffing we are spending 2.5 BB to win 2-3BB.

So ballpark, he has to be bluffing over 50% of the time for this calldown to be profitable (considering that if he has a pocket pair or K we are mostly crushed).

So, does this villian bluff bets with only overs to the 6 into 4 other players on a KK6 flop more than 50% of the time?. I can't answer for you but I'd let this one go (maybe on the turn if you need a little extra confirmation)
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:59 AM   #21
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Re: 3/6: bottom pair on the flop

This is a helpful post. Most of the hands I play are marginal. I'm in the blind a flop bottom pair with a draw... Some times I miss my draw and call down HU and win and sometimes I lose. Know when to fold so you will also know when to call.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:36 PM   #22
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This is a helpful post. Most of the hands I play are marginal. I'm in the blind a flop bottom pair with a draw... Some times I miss my draw and call down HU and win and sometimes I lose. Know when to fold so you will also know when to call.
In my opinion, this is a special case of tiny pot, and a "natural selection" flop where the villian has to have it a lot betting into the field.

As a word of caution, there are many situations where calling down is +ev: narrower pf ranges in unprotected pots, fewer players, or a slightly bigger pot.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:22 PM   #23
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Re: 3/6: bottom pair on the flop

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In my opinion, this is a special case of tiny pot, and a "natural selection" flop where the villian has to have it a lot betting into the field.

As a word of caution, there are many situations where calling down is +ev: narrower pf ranges in unprotected pots, fewer players, or a slightly bigger pot.
The concept is what I need to learn. I venture into some higher limit tougher games and watch the action. Good players bet, call and raise when it looks to me that they don't have the best hand. Risk takers where I'm still loss adverse. So, I play 3/6 where it is much easier. Seldom HU and less bluffing, less value betting into you as well. Someone makes their hand on the river they usually win depending on the strength. Nuts is nice. most often you know where you are, best hand or drawing. Usually being chased.
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