KC Hollywood. 10-handed. I was UTG+1 Hourly high hand bonus. 10 players.

V1 - older guy I had played at Ameristar a couple of times He talks a lot - rationalizes every hand after it's over. Medium tight and experienced.

V2 was a 30-something woman I had never seen before. She was a little short-stacked but had just won a pot all-in.

UTG folds.
I raised AKhh.
some calls including V1 and V2.

Flop 8h, 6s, 10h.
I bet, V1 raises, V2 calls, I call. Might have been some other calls, anyway I was counting the bets and there were 19 small bets in minus the rake when we went to the turn.
Should I have re-raised the flop?

Turn: 4c
I check, V1 bets, V2 calls. anybody else who was in the for turn folded. I called.
Should I have bet here?
Should I have re-raised?

River: 9h
I bet, V1 calls, V2 folds.
Should I have tried for a check raise here?

I try to play tight aggressive. This was the first hand I played outside of the blinds in an hour. I came away pleased to drag the pot but keep wondering how many bets I might have missed. Usually when I'm in this situation on the flop and turn and try to get as much money in as I can the river lets me down.

Nice hand. Maybe check raise river but I'd expect it to check through quite often so betting is probably best.

The fact that youre trying to figure out what you should do on the flop and the fact that you don't know how many players called two cold before action gets back to you is very troubling.

How are we, or you, supposed to be able to figure out the appropriate line? Whether or not to jam a naked flush draw with overs is basically a straight equity calc based on information you didn't think was important enough to note

Lol, as ZOMG rudely stated, the number of players that you have in on the flop is important. If you have many players trapped in calling bets, then jamming it up with solid equity is very profitable. If it's just the 3 of you in then it's close, but I'd still just jam it up. I always get there though.

As played the turn and river are good. Turn is standard and a straight may not even bet the river so just donking is best. Had you been driving the action, a checkraise looks more appealing as your hand looks like an overpair that hates the river.

Pssh, that wasn't rude at all. If you ask what to do in situation X, but don't list the important information in making that descion, then there is a much bigger hole than not knowing what to do in situation X.

From now on I'll use emoticons so people don't interrupt an honest answer as rudeness lolol ;-D lololol

Yeah the # of players in on the flop is not only not trivial, it's critical to know. The flush will come in 35% of the time, and the times you do get there and it's no good (someone makes a boat) is balanced by your overcard equity. If it's 5 ways, you absolutely have to jam for pure value. Nut flush draws have around the same eq 5 ways as they do HU, so you should be looking to go full animal with them on flops multiway.

As played the river is an easy donk. Pretty sure I absolutely hate the idea of trying to c/r the river if we were driving the action. I don't think it's the kind of run out that's going to get bet enough and the person have a big enough hand to call. Sure sometimes they have a 7 or QJ but unless it's the middle player who does then c/r'ing doesn't even make more compared to getting thin value calls. This board smacks a "i have too big a hand to fold, but I'd really like to see showdown for free" range a lot. I'm not even sure mp can bet his two par hands if you check.

Pretty sure since we have the a and the k of hearts we need to bet out because we do get bet/3 against an other flush or straight a decent % but we will absolutely never get put in more than 2 if we c/r

Solid.

I lied. Sometimes we get to put more than 2 when you c/r and it's when you're beat.

Howard don't let this thread thread confuse you. The real reason we're donking is still because we want money to go in on this street and there is a very good reason to believe it should check through. Not because "ZoMg A fllluushsh! Lolol tarp them gud by leading out!" Don't let this trigger a relapse

Well, I thought it maybe might significant enough that I counted the bets and I knew where I was mathematically on that basis. I'm sorry I couldn't remember every last person's move on this hand. It was a 10-handed table and a lot of action on this hand.

Me too.

It's not though. You want to know if you should jam a flush draw and overs, the single most important factor is how many players you're jamming over the top of. When you're raising you're concerned about money going in to the pot, not what's already in.

No need to apologize

pretend V2 exposed two black aces on the flop and is unbluffable.

1) how big a pot before you jam the flop heads up?

2) how many callers do you need to jam the flop if the same player has AA and the pot is magically one bet to start the flop?

Very good questions. I'm not too sure of the answers. That's why I come here . . . for help. What should I do in those situations?

Just to be clear we're talking strict jamming for equity here. Meaning someone is always showing down, no bluffing, nothing extra at all. It's just a stripped down hand where the ONLY thing we care about is what percent of the time our hand is going to be good at showdown. Notice we don't give a **** what place out hand is currently in. We only care at showdown. We don't care at all what's already in the pot because you're asking if we should keep putting more money in.

Someone less lazy can do the real work for you but the good enough for now cheaters math says you need to have 1/X equity where X is the players in the hand. Meaning in the hand you posted if there were only the players you need to win 1/3 of the time to make it an easy jam, but if there were 5 you only need to 1/5. And none of it has anything to with how much is in the pot and everything to do with how many players you're getting to put more money in

ZOMG is right. You get 35% of all the additional money that goes in to the pot, so you are winning money if you contribute less than 35% of what goes in.

See SSHE, page 36, situation 3.

just a yes or no to these questions would probably help me. Thanks. If you want to show me the math that's fine too.

No, you need to know the why to really improve, else you're just following orders blindly.

That's like asking to just verify whether you got a math problem right without intuition of the logic behind it. You might find the right answer by accident, but you'll have no intellectual framework for solving other, similar problems.

In low limit hold em, you have to get the flop right, and you have to be able to process a lot of variables rapidly.

On the turn, I'm going to assume that somehow you're closing the action and facing a single bet after everyone but 1 folded.
This is actually pretty simple and has two pieces. What's your immediate equity? You're putting in 1/3 of the money. To raise for value, you need more than 1/3 of the equity. Part of this is wondering if your A and K outs are ever good -- you don't make a flush 1/3 of the time. So, V1 raised you on the flop and has bet into a big field on the turn. Give him a range of hands. V2 can be discussed here, but most importantly next.

How about raising to bluff? Pot is pretty big and winning unimproved seems fun + profitable. The problem is that a medium tight guy has shown a bunch of aggression in a big field -- he likes his hand. Maybe he totally respects your tight image? Add to that your V2 who has already put $ in on this street. Few small stakes players call 1 and fold for 1 more. So, your plan is to bluff 2 streets. Let's assuming they're remotely conscious. You're telling them that the offsuit 4 is so scary they should fold? OK, maybe you slowplayed a monster. You could have TT or 88. How likely is V1 to fold fearing a set of T's when he has a T? Same with V2 with an 8? Put their ranges together, if they block the hand you're repping... Maybe they think you play AA this way? That's the bluffing side. Captain R had a nice pooh-bah post on bluffing that you should find.

3 bet the flop all day.

On the river, I just bet, no way these guys are going to value bet 1 pair, 2 pair, sets, etc

first off, this is a really well thought out post, I like a lot in here.


2nd, this is 3/6

even if you turned over TT, they would still call the turn and river with AT

Can't argue.

Based on the info we have, they're never folding a piece of the board. Low limit players aren't coming to the casino to make hero folds. Even in no limit, I'm guessing bottom set could get two full stacks off of hands like TPTK and JJ or something (good 1 pair hands). So in limit you can't make a cool plan to bluff two people on the turn -- the most likely outcome is that both will call. That's why value betting is so valuable.

The TT vs. AT is so funny because it is true.