first time posting so I hope I'm doing this right. I turned 18 3 months ago, worked up to $2500, plan on playing live limit poker now. I was wondering if I should play $3/$6 or $4/$8. Searching these forums it seems $2/$4 is unbeatable, so I'm not playing that. The rake structure is $3/hand, so are these games beatable? I know there are posts about this already, but none that are specific to my rake structure. and purely based on my roll should I play with about 400BB at $3/$6 or 300BB at $4/$8? thanks for the help

Hi. You will get a lot of good advice here. First, welcome. Second, I'm sure you will be pointed to some sticky threads.

$2500 will last longer on 3/6 and starting out that is a major concern. I play both and 4/8 does not sound like a lot more than 3/6 but it is when you have limited funds.

Other than that it depends on a lot of other factors on game choice.

I would say start at 3/6.

the bigger the game the easier 2 over come the rake
3$ rake is nice

True if both games have the same level of difficulty. E.g. All other things being equal. Maybe the 4/8 players are slightly better?

The drop between 3/6 and 6/12 where I play is the same. $4. But, 6/12 is way more difficult.

Imo, with $3 rake and no tip, 4/8 can be a solid $6-$8/hr beatable game. A 1$ tip brings that down to $3 to $5 per hr, the main effect being that the swings will appear larger, and the long run longer.

Try playing online too (20/40c or .5/1) if possible. You get to play a lot more hands, so your game improves faster.

Good luck

I'm assuming you're saying 3/6 is profitable, so based on that I believe I'll start out at 3/6. With 400 BB at 3/6 when do you think I should move up to 4/8? 400BB at 4/8 or just until I'm comfortable playing live?(I've never played in a casino, so I could still be completely comfortable or be extremely nervous, we'll see I guess) and are you saying starting out as in starting to play in a casino or starting out playing poker?

The profitability of the two games is close. I have no idea how experienced you are. It takes a long time and several hours to beat low limit. If you have not played in a casino start at 3/6. A friend of mine played 2/4 for 15 years before he played 3/6. He is an exception.

My point is that your BR will last longer at 3/6. If after a few sessions if you feel okay move to 4/8. Live play you need to play in turn and pay attention. Nothing like online or home games.

Good luck.

Play some time at 3/6 to learn the game, make good decisions, and most of all have some fun.

The concept of a long term beatable game only applies if you planning to play thousands of hours or longer. In the short term anything can happen.

In a few months, once you feel comfortable playing, move to the 4/8 with $3 rake if possible. This game plays probably identical, but at least gives you a chance to win a little money (very) long term. 3/6 with $3 rake plus tip is probably not beatable. See it as affordable entertainment.

I have played 5,000 hours of Hold'em and 2,000 hours at 3/6. My opinion from watching players at 3/6 I think very few, and I mean very few win at the game long term. If you want to actually make money you need to play middle limit and play well. Almost all middle limit players started at small stakes. The good ones move up and make money.

For me it is a hobby and I play 3/6 for fun and for something to do in retirement. I want to win but that is not the reason that I play.

My advice to you is:

start at 3/6 and play the best you know how and plan to play there for at least 200 hours. This may seem like a lot of poker and for many it is. But if your going to dedicate yourself to being a player for life 200 hours is just a short term goal. This is really just a learning phase and should be looked at as cheap lab time where you also scored a informal part time job helping out around the place and for that the boss pays you a few bucks an hour at random.

Now as you familiarize yourself with your play and the game in general you are going to decide you need to work on some things in an effort to get better at playing it. Hence the need to apply yourself through study.

Your study although general in nature should be built around two main things. First a scheduling procedure called WSPT or Worth Sets Priority Theory. The second is situations and theoretical topics that come up during play that you find you are somewhat fuzzy on. You know, things you just cant remember or "forget" to do. These are things that leave you feeling like you were "faking it" during the play or find after you just simply "forgot" to do.

For example

You will be in the blind once every 5 of fewer hands in LLHE AND you will often be in a limped pot. We know that its almost impossible to come away a winner from the blinds and we spend so much time in them it behooves us to focus a fair amount of study time to playing pre flop and on the flop correctly from there.

Preflop strategy surrounding blind play often varies on the number of limpers. depending on the # of limpers sometimes you should raise a certain hand and sometimes just call. For example: If you find yourself thinking "I just cant remember what I'm supposed to do most of the time I have J8o in the small blind with and EP limper and a LP limper and a loose big blind" Aw heck I 'll just raise . Well that's faking it and a sure sign this area need study.

Furthermore since we are so often in this situation (WSPT) we should definitely put it high on our "to do" list as far priority is concerned. Beyond this we should also PLAN to study how to play out of position on both the flop and the turn.

These last two things will work for us in several occasions. One being when we open raise. we will almost always be playing oop, or we will be playing in position against the blinds. Its is really good to know how to play when in the blinds whether we are in them or not. first when we are in the blind it is good to know how to play and what to expect from the opponent in position. Also it is good to know how the blinds should play and how they do play when find ourselves in position. Simply because we can exploit our opponents when in position and keep from being exploited when we are not.

get it ?

But the bottom line is study the things and situations that bring that feeling of faking it. These are the ones you don't know so well when your in the heat of action . And also those things that are WORTH the most because getting them wrong costs you a ton or that come up most often

I would say play 200 or 300 hours of 3/6 implementing specific daily missions aimed at achieving a goal and developing a skill. As you find shortcomings you work to build them up. and of course you are also working to develop your general knowledge about and skills surrounding your play. As you gain experience you will certainly find players with whom you feel unsure about. Pay attention to them and watch what they do. Soon you will figure them out and identify various means to beat them. After a specific amount of time and if you are beating the game and feel confident with your play in it it is probably time to widen you horizons a bit.

No need to tell me to study the game, I've been studying for a few years now. I mean what's a kid suppose to do if he can't find a game and he's too young to go to a casino? I consider myself competent enough to beat the lowest limits, but we'll see I guess. I've read numerous books, articles, and all the FAQs and stickies on here; so hopefully everything goes well.

Then move to 4/8 after a few weeks of playing 3/6. Mainly after you get used to the mechanics of live play and comfortable putting real money on the line.

Good luck, and remember to fasten your seatbelt

ne need to study ? heck then just go out and play 4-8 till you either double or go brake.

Most winning players study all the time.

About the question, blind structure is something to consider too. When I play 3-6 in the small blind, I only have a dollar committed and it's 2/3 of a bet more to come in (unless it's raised). I'm going to need a bit stronger of a hand to overcome those odds, so I'm looking for reasons to fold. In 4-8, small blind is $2 and a half a bet more to come in; same amount of money but better odds. In this case I'm looking for reasons to call. A riskier proposition.

Okay, to the last two posters:

He didn't say, "I don't need to study," he said, "No need to tell me to study."

In other words: "I study all the time already."

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Also, to the OP: I remember turning eighteen and being so stoked to head to the B&M. Here's my advice: the swings can be horrible. Losing $25 to a bad beat at a friend's home game feels MUCH less painful than losing $350 when your opponent's 88 hits its set after both of you are all in pre flop.

That said, these are just variance. No one wants to play with the guy who takes it to heart. I'm sure you know objectively how the game works, if you studied as much as you said. That being the case, just remember: it sucks a lot worse in real life when it happens (at least at first). Get over that without tilting = profit.