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Old 02-07-2012, 11:53 AM   #1
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10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

Villain in this hand has been playing passive all night. He is not a regular in this game and was in today to play a "mega stack" NLHE tournament. There is one other non regular that had also played in the tournament. The table as a whole had been playing extremely loose passive with multiple pots going to the flop 6-7 way limped around (hello 2005!).

A previous hand the villain had played he had raised a limper and got to a 5 way 10 high flop that was suited in hearts. He bet the flop and turn and when an ace (non heart) hit the river he checked behind in position after 2 checks (only three to the river). His hand was 10-10 for the flopped top set. He commented that he had probably missed a bet.

I am in the Big Blind with 2,6. The action goes limp, villain raise in MP, very loose cutoff calls, SB call, I call, limper calls.

Flop: 445

CK,CK,CK, continuation bet, cold call, fold, I check raise, fold, villain 3-bet and other player folds. I call

At this point I am looking to hit a 3, any pair, or a heart to check raise the turn and rely on his no limit player tendencies to fold a likely overpair if I don't get there. If he checks behind on the turn I will just give up if I don't hit. The previous check behind of a non-nut hand tells me that as a no limit player he won't value bet light, but also may lay down some good hands to constant aggression.

Turn: Q I check raise and he calls

I plan to fire all rivers
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:59 AM   #2
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

Since I am relying on him to fold, I should state that my image is clean. I have been playing tighter than most at the table (have loosened up some because of how loose the table was) and haven't been caught bluffing. I am up $200 since he sat down about an hour ago.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:00 PM   #3
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

Since he misses value I assume he has a hand when he bets the turn. The pot has gotten pretty big by the turn so I don't think he'll be folding 99, and that's if he even bets the turn with that. NL player or not I need to see him bet fold after 3 betting the flop before I try this play.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:11 PM   #4
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

I don't understand the c/r on the flop (you have 6-hi and a gunshot on a paired board) and I don't get the c/r on the turn because you're still drawing and the Qh shouldn't have helped you much.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:10 PM   #5
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

The C/R on the flop I assume was to thin the field to set up bluff.

(You then should have fired the turn. His turn bet into the Q shows he either isn't afraid of this card or that he has decided not miss more value. Either way when he bets the turn its less likely he is now folding. Plus, if you are repping a big hand on the flop, that Q shouldn't have changed your hand much. What story are you telling?)

In general,I don't like it from the flop on. Too much of a parlay of a lot of players not having anything to call you with required to make this play work. You're on a loose passive table featuring 6 to 7 on a flop. Look for places to push value, not to leverage scant fold equity.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:09 PM   #6
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

did u consider betting the flop?
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:48 PM   #7
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

I don't get it.
k/r the flop is too big of parlay for bluff, too thin for value. Certainly once he 3! on the flop, a k/r on the turn is clearly wrong.
What hand in his range does he call the turn with, but fold the river with?

What are you repping with turn k/r once the Q hits
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:09 PM   #8
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

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Originally Posted by leo doc View Post
I don't understand the c/r on the flop (you have 6-hi and a gunshot on a paired board) and I don't get the c/r on the turn because you're still drawing and the Qh shouldn't have helped you much.
The checkraise on the flop is just to represent the 4. I am saying that there were 5 people that saw this flop and as the big blind I called with a 4 in my hand. I am trying to leverage my read that he will incorrectly fold to try to win this pot that at the time contains 6 big bets. If he has a hand like Ace/King Ace/Queen, he will probably fold an unimproved hand on the turn.

Once I get three bet I am hoping that he will try a no limit play of pot control and maybe give me a free card on the turn, and it is 1 more small bet into a 16 small bet pot (admittedly that I bloated).

On the turn the Q doesn't matter, it is the that matters. I continue to tell the story that I have a 4! In addition I probably have 11-12 outs if called down.

On the river I am obligated to continue the story whether or not I hit.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:11 PM   #9
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

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did u consider betting the flop?
No. I would always check raise a 4 here. If it got checked through I would bet the turn if I had a four. Standard play in these games is to check to the raiser and check raise a big hand. I am trying to tell this story and not get him suspicious.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:41 PM   #10
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In my opinion, this k/r bluff into 4+ players works way less than the 1/6 of the time we need to break even.

As a separate point, in this particular hand, a NL player that 3b this flop is rarely folding HU to a min bettor.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:06 PM   #11
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

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No. I would always check raise a 4 here. If it got checked through I would bet the turn if I had a four. Standard play in these games is to check to the raiser and check raise a big hand. I am trying to tell this story and not get him suspicious.
after flop k/r, y not lead turn?
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:09 AM   #12
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

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Originally Posted by ...one... View Post
after flop k/r, y not lead turn?
Again, it is because I am trying to make him believe that I had a 4. I would be more likely to go for a turn check raise or I would cap the flop after his three bet before I would ever call a three bet and donk the turn. To me that makes less sense than some of the stupid stuff I did in this hand.

I really had the feeling at the table that he was going to fold and either didn't like his hand or thought I might have it. I was trying to get a feel for how bad the players here thought this was. I know when I got to the river and realized I blew through 5.5 big bets that I was probably way off.

Lucky for me, he did fold the river. Unlucky for me, I actually made my draw with the 5 hearts (2 pair board, I could've used the extra $20 and the advertising of my actual hand).
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:24 AM   #13
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Re: 10-20 live: Is this the right setup for a bluff?

there are certain players that this might work against, but guys who sit on their a$$ all night waiting for aces arent that type.
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