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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 03-05-2017, 09:45 PM   #1
mongidig
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Turn made hand into bluff?

8/16 9 handed

UTG limps, HJ limps, Button limps, I raise in SB with 8c8h, BB folds and all call.

Td6c2d...I bet, only UTG and button call. UTG seems like a nitty older Asian gentleman. The button seems laggy and maybe tricky( he cc JJ second in and then capped after 3 bet).

Td6c2d6s...I bet, both call.

Td6c2d6sAd...I'm basically trying to get the nit Asian off a ten maybe if I bet.

Yes, no?
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Old 03-05-2017, 10:02 PM   #2
Howard Beale
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

What about the other player? So, no, too much chance someone calls for the fairly big pot. Also, what makes you think that you had a 'made hand?'
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Old 03-05-2017, 10:32 PM   #3
leavesofliberty
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

I don't like the turn bet. Check and spike an eight. People limp w tens and jacks in their hand frequently.
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Old 03-05-2017, 11:10 PM   #4
ninefingershuffle
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Fine. Give up on the river.

What are you representing with a bet? What makes aces barrel flop and turn and then make a pair on the river?
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Old 03-05-2017, 11:15 PM   #5
NittyOldMan1
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

I think I would just check and then fold to a bet

I dont see how we can check turn when we usually still have the best hand
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Old 03-06-2017, 01:08 AM   #6
leavesofliberty
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Turn bet I am ok with, there's a significant number of flush draws that you can be up against, but you'll also be up against a T a significant number of times. But yeah, turn bet can be good. I don't think you can credibly rep an ace, though it's a scary card, and people just fold into cards that are scary without thinking too much. I don't think anything adds up, so I think you're getting called here way too much to be profitable.
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Old 03-06-2017, 01:48 AM   #7
Plsmrshenry
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

I like the bet. Could fold out a T very easily. I'd be betting anything I ended up with that wasn't paired and this is towards the bottom of the pairs I'd raise out of the small here. It's def credible and the lag would prlly raise if he had a flushdraw on the flop/turn
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Old 03-06-2017, 01:57 AM   #8
asmitty
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Hand is great until the river, where I also give up. Nitty asian man will not fold Tx here in a pot of this size (especially now that he chops with all better tens) and there is very little that either player will call with that you beat. I think it will get checked around quite a bit but you should put no more $ into the pot.

Hand is way more interesting if you have JJ-KK.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:21 AM   #9
Howard Beale
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asmitty View Post

Hand is way more interesting if you have JJ-KK.
Those hands are why two players who should know better have told me in the last while that they'd rather play higher bec 'too many ppl call raises in the 8-16 and they never fold so it's really tough to win' but they're not rolled for it. I give them the :eye roll: bec they forget the number of huge pots they win when they hit. OTOH, these are players that want to win TODAY!

As for what to do w/ them? Just about the worst card in the deck came and that is why I'm thinking of trying to sell vomit bags designed for poker players. It's also a great bluff card, tho, so I'd c/c one player.
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:11 AM   #10
Old Ghost
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

If you really want to turn this hand into a bluff I would rather try to c/r a bet from laggy button. Just c/f to bet from nit.
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:13 AM   #11
gr26
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

he sits between two guys. The flush completes. Maybe it will work. Though both of them could have an ace. The board was safe and paired (everybody draws an ace on a paired board hahaha).
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:54 AM   #12
Munga30
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Agree with the sentiment to give up. you have 77 here, maybe 55, and QJs. Not saying you have to bluff with those but that you could so it's clearer that this hand is a give up. Win frequently when it checks thru.

I like the turn bet fwiw.
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:00 PM   #13
jdr0317
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Unless you're a serial 2 barrel monkey with A hi, you're just repping such a narrow range of hands. Check fold.
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Old 03-08-2017, 08:36 AM   #14
mongidig
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Thanks for the replies.

Lets change the 6 to a 5 and assume there is no flush draw. Does this change much as far as betting the river?
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:39 AM   #15
leavesofliberty
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
Thanks for the replies.

Lets change the 6 to a 5 and assume there is no flush draw. Does this change much as far as betting the river?
It's less likely you're running into the hand you're trying to represent, so a little more bluffable. I still wouldn't go for it. My opponents call way too much.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:23 PM   #16
Bob148
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

I think this spot is not so ripe for the fabled value bluff, but with good reads on all opponents I might go for it. Like if the guy stuck in the middle is a very nitty nit and the guy in position is very loosey goosey then I may bet the river hoping that the guy in the middle folds a better hand and the guy in position calls with worse. It's one of those perfect storm scenarios though. It's not a standard play imo and should be used with caution and only with solid reads on all opponents. The most important thing to realize here is that you can win somewhat often when it checks through. This makes checking +ev because of the money in the pot relative to folding. Thus in order for betting to be correct, the ev of making this bet must be so great that it exceeds the ev of checking, which will be rare by my estimation.

Here's an example of a value bluff that I believe to be correct:

8 handed 25cent/50cent at my house a few years back.

My tight ass brother in law raises under the gun, which he wouldn't do with AQ or 77, which he would limp in with. bunch of calls, including my 100% preflop vpip father on the button, small blind calls, I call in the big blind with AQo and away we go to the flop:

25Tr

checks around. This means that my brother in law has exactly AK, 99, or 88. Maybe AQs but I doubt it. The rest of the table can have just about anything.

5o

small blind checks, I bet, utg calls, folds to dad, he calls, small blind folds and we miraculously go to the river three handed:

6o

I go for the value bluff. I bet, utg deliberates, checks his cards, looks at dad, apparently decides that I simply could not be bluffing with dad on the button who is quite likely to call any queen high or better, utg sighs and folds. Dad calls instantly. I show and declare a pair with AQ high. He shows A3o and thinks we chop. Utg hangs his head in disappointment and I scoop.

/brag

That kind of spot only really comes up once in a great while though. So it's not like missing out on the value bluff is going to have any real impact on one's long term winrate. It's really just a novelty that results in bragging rights for next years game.
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Old 03-11-2017, 08:53 AM   #17
mongidig
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob148 View Post
I think this spot is not so ripe for the fabled value bluff, but with good reads on all opponents I might go for it. Like if the guy stuck in the middle is a very nitty nit and the guy in position is very loosey goosey then I may bet the river hoping that the guy in the middle folds a better hand and the guy in position calls with worse. It's one of those perfect storm scenarios though. It's not a standard play imo and should be used with caution and only with solid reads on all opponents. The most important thing to realize here is that you can win somewhat often when it checks through. This makes checking +ev because of the money in the pot relative to folding. Thus in order for betting to be correct, the ev of making this bet must be so great that it exceeds the ev of checking, which will be rare by my estimation.

Here's an example of a value bluff that I believe to be correct:

8 handed 25cent/50cent at my house a few years back.

My tight ass brother in law raises under the gun, which he wouldn't do with AQ or 77, which he would limp in with. bunch of calls, including my 100% preflop vpip father on the button, small blind calls, I call in the big blind with AQo and away we go to the flop:

25Tr

checks around. This means that my brother in law has exactly AK, 99, or 88. Maybe AQs but I doubt it. The rest of the table can have just about anything.

5o

small blind checks, I bet, utg calls, folds to dad, he calls, small blind folds and we miraculously go to the river three handed:

6o

I go for the value bluff. I bet, utg deliberates, checks his cards, looks at dad, apparently decides that I simply could not be bluffing with dad on the button who is quite likely to call any queen high or better, utg sighs and folds. Dad calls instantly. I show and declare a pair with AQ high. He shows A3o and thinks we chop. Utg hangs his head in disappointment and I scoop.

/brag

That kind of spot only really comes up once in a great while though. So it's not like missing out on the value bluff is going to have any real impact on one's long term winrate. It's really just a novelty that results in bragging rights for next years game.
It also helps you to get paid off in the future more in the much more common scenario were you're not bluffing.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:58 AM   #18
6MaxLHE
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

What hands in your range that you raised out of the SB with can lead that river? KQdd, KJdd, ATo+ A8s+. I would just check and hope they both missed. No value in betting or trying to get both of them to fold. Our bluff has to be successful 12% of the time and CO and BTN are just not folding any value hands to make this profitable.

Last edited by 6MaxLHE; 03-11-2017 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:08 AM   #19
TheHip41
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Re: Turn made hand into bluff?

Time to check fold the river.

You are against two people, at low limit holdem.

You aren't getting two folds
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