8/16 loose table.

avg UTG limps.
unknown MP1 calls.
I raise A 8 from MP2. (too loose?)
Loose LP calls.
loose goofy button calls.
Blinds fold.

5 to the flop: 8 6 2

UTG bets, MP1 folds, I raise, call, call, UTG also calls.

4 to the turn: 5
check, I bet, all three call.

4 to the river: Q
I bet intending to call.

I like it.

I like everything but the MP raise. It's a situation where you get weaker aces to fold, stronger aces to call, and less money in pre for the flush draw. If you do this, it should be for image. I also may bet/fold river or bet/call depending.

Good

nh

I don't like our plan to call River raises. From a GTO POV, this is probably our weakest value hand, unless we're a monkey with our raising of limpers (sometimes guilty), so we shouldn't feel too badly if we get bluffed off it. From an exploitative sense, if there was a read that one of our opponents would try a spaz bluff, we'd most likely know it because spazzes can't not spaz for long. I don't see any merit in calling a river raise besides "pot is big I call".

Can't really bet/fold anything in a good sized pot in this game if it is where I think it is. No good reason to check it back, that leaves bet/call.

Nice hand, I think A8s with 2 limpers is sometimes a call if a table is loose passive enough. If the loose LP and loose button will always call your raises, might be better to call.

Depends how you assign others' ranges. My assignment: everyone else is terrible. Their ranges are terrible. Possible their bluff ranges, too, are terrible and too wide. Ergo we call with our entire value range.

IME it usually doesn't take long to tell if someone makes horrendous river bluff raises chronically, so we can start figuring out who to call fast. Once we do figure out who those people are, we can start confidently calling our entire value ranges. Most live 8/16 players won't even bother try to bluff raise you off a hand when a raise gives you 17.75:1

This all being said, I was probably a little too strong on Bob for wanting to b/c a river in a pot of this size

GTO ideas like folding the bottom of our value only apply if three things are true: we know villains' ranges; they know our range; they bet with the correct frequencies.

I'd say the default should be that horrible players are capable of straying wildly: They may decide our range is exactly AKss, or otherwise decide to bluff too much. So, we can call all of our value in this gigantic pot. We need an overly strong read the raise is coming from an obvious tight/straightforward/nit to consider folding A8 here.

Agree with jdr. I'd probably fold aces if someone raised me here. The guys you don't fold too are usually very obvious if you've put in a few hours with them.

A check raise here would look so weird. I would expect KsQs to bet out or c/c the river.

Results:
I was bewildered when LP called the river with 99 the button called and showed KK.

It had me wondering if I was way off my rocker!

If they always call your raise then definately raise, because they usually have two lower suited.

If you are constantly 5 to 6 way to the flop, and you not being in position, I don't believe your equity is enough to justify raising in a raked game. The amount of times they have lower As or suited cards is offset by the equity loss of so many players. A single pair of flopped As will quite often lose or have no kicker.

Certainly close, if I will raise ATs than A8s not that much less equity, but there is a kicker point where calling is better. if I am wrong maybe A6s and less is a call. This is only because we are not in LP, we are raising a middling Ace and guaranteed to be multi way out of position. Given a choice I think raising 22 might be slightly better because realizing your equity and implied odds are easier and the hand is easier to play post flop OOP.

I usually would limp this preflop. As played I like raise on flop and bet on turn.

I certainly wouldn't call a raise on the river from most players.

Probably more likely to just check the river; I think you are ahead less than 50% of the time here.

Amendment. Most players at a live 8/16 game will be extremely predictable/straightforward when they raise river. My brain wasn't in live low stakes mode.

I'm raising this pf from the big blind in a limpy game as described, I'm certainly raising it from MP when I have a chance to get the button or the blinds to fold.

The part that's questionable is auto-calling the river when it turns out you're in a passive ftank and are unlikely to be bluffed. I only call the times that they are bluffing, personally. The pf is interesting and debateable.

You should feel satisfaction in knowing that you lost the minimum here due to your opponents play.

Nice hand.