I think this is a wonderful comment because it's so level 0.

You show, if you choose to, because there's a significant level of information asymmetry here. Specifically, your opponents will not be able to do very much with the information you give them (especially if it is misleading, but really, this is true of most opponents even with respect to decent information, because they don't put people on accurate ranges), whereas you may be able to do a lot with the information you receive back from them. Plus, they may even do "friendly" things like fold the button rather than stealing the blinds, which are +EV for you too.

I'm a grower, not a show-er.

Thanks for the visual.

You tell me. You're the one who asked the question. I merely repeated it back to you.

It was rhetorical genuis..do you know what that means? IF??? you do, then you also know you should have just kept ur mouth shut..no need for a reply...IF you knew what it meant.

Nobody here is "worried" about it.

Then why the thread genuis?

Based on your response here, the odds are good that you lack some of the basic social skills that allow you to raise and not make everyone angry. I seem to be able to do it just fine, as do many others.


OHHH ok, so they keep limping and limping and limping, and you continue to RAise Raise raise, but they don't mind that you're making them put in that XTRA bet over and over again...because you have social skills LMAO! not even gonna debate "social skills" statement is IDIOTIC enough to reflect what you REALLY know..lmao!

Specifically, your opponents will not be able to do very much with the information you give them

ThEY may not be able to do anything with the info, but you BETTER not keep showing me your hand..i will steal you blind! But I'm not your avg 4/8 player.

Let's say I have JJ on an Ace high board and I'm the PFR in position and I've bet flop and turn, but river comes a K. Even though I'm last aggressor I'm not required to show first in LHE.

Same thing if I'm in position as PFR and I've had the betting lead on a wet flop and two opponents have been calling me down and the nightmare card hits but for some reason they both check to me. I'm not showing first.

Obviously I snap roll my bluffs when they are called and snap show my whiffs when the river checks through and I'm in worst position.

I have started to wonder about the douche level of the first two scenarios though. I just hate to show my hand out of turn and not win the pot... just doesn't make sense to me.

You're right that it's not the last aggressor that shows but the play order.

This is something that keeps people happy. Keep the game moving and don't stall for no apparent reason.

Do you hate it from a "process" sort of perspective? (I did something I didn't need to do!) Or is there some ego tied to having to publicly admit to not having the best hand? Or because you think it displays some sort of presumptiveness?

There's really no reason to hate it. In passive games, if the river checks around and I've got nothing, I'm happy to turn over my hand proudly and announce "no pair" or "9-high" and expect someone to have me beat. In those games.

Yes that's why I'm starting to be conflicted about it. Because it seems like a personal hang up more than anything practical. Anything less than 20/40 I'm not really worried about sharing unnecessary info.

I think at those higher levels you can expect everyone to know/follow the basic protocols. If someone else is supposed to show, just say "Your action" or something like that and they should probably respond. (It's possible they've just zoned out for a moment.)

Edit: If they say "You got me" then I just show my hand and scoop the pot. I don't force them to show (though you can if you wanted). I'm usually not going to gain *that* much more useful information by knowing exactly what hand they played badly.

This is the least intimidating chest-thumping declaration I think I've ever seen.

I've lost too many pots to people that have said "you got it" for me to show first after calling their bet.

It *is* worth pointing out that one should find out the rule about showing at any casino where they're playing. I've seen some casinos where it's always the previous aggressor who has to show first, and I've seen casinos where it kind of "resets" each round, i.e. if the river goes check-check whoever's out of position has to show first no matter what happened on any previous round.

I can't say that I've had that happen before. I mean, maybe there was a missed draw or something.

I can understand being annoyed by that, and if you're afraid of someone angling you, you can always say, "Go ahead and muck."

That's pretty amazing if you've never had it happen. Sometimes they have better ace high. Sometimes they are bluffing with bottom pair and you have ace high. Sometimes they have top pair and think if you're calling it can't possibly be good. Sometimes they have the nuts.

I mean if I know someone's character I'll courtesy show unless I'm particularly interested. But if I lose to you one time when you say "you got it" I'm never showing again.

Maybe it's because I have a lot of hours playing online poker and so the idea that people knowing what I have at showdown just doesn't bother me. Maybe it has happened, but I'm simply not caring enough to make mental note of it (though I think in the last example, I would have felt that someone was intentionally angling or something like that).

It's not douchey, it's just not taking advantage of the fact that showing costs you little and often gains you more than the cost.

One fine way to play is to check behind and just pause. If they say "I missed" or "you're good," snap show to avoid embarassing them. The other way is to just check and flip over your cards.

The only douchey scenario is where they say "I missed" and you say something obnoxious like "SHOW OR MUCK SIR" and force them to admit they called you with 4th pair 7th kicker and then you slowroll like 2nd pair top kicker or something.

Usually this scenario occurs because I think it's highly likely I don't have the best hand - hence, I checked the river back. I'm pretty good at extracting thin value bets.

If you're not good on the river, how often are you good on the turn?

In general, I think you should just show if you think your hand has a reasonable chance of being good. Don't insist on the order of showdown. If you are a winning player, you benefit from fast showdowns because you play more hands an hour if the showdowns are fast, and you probably have a better idea of players' ranges than your opponents do anyway, so if this allows opponents to muck all the better.

Certainly, however, there's a special place in poker hell for people who say "I missed" and "you got it" with hands that have showdown value.

I agree I think showing has merit like when everyone is like show the bluff or show the nutz and you show them the opposite I think it can really mess with someone's view of you in a way that keeps em guessing as long as your not doing it to piss someone off because they will just work that much harder to crush you


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If I play with a loose passive player and for some reason am bluffing them and succeed, I may show. If they're leak is to call too much I want them to think I'm bluffing and call more.

Similarly, if I'm value betting v a tight player who folds too much I may show. Again want to reinforce the tendency to overfold b

I think it can really mess with someone's view of you in a way that keeps em guessing as long as your not doing it to piss someone off because they will just work that much harder to crush you


When did putting someone on tilt become a bad thing?????

I certainly don't think you should work to piss players off. They might leave, they might get violent, etc. Plus some of that just isn't right. E.g., you can piss players off by slowrolling and Hollywooding, but that doesn't mean you should do it.

Having said that, there's a whole contingent here (especially, believe it or not, in the higher stakes boards) who are convinced that the last thing you want is opponents gunning to get you, because they will play better when they do. It usually comes into play in table image discussions. Personally, I think it's just fine if my opponents come after me, but YMMV.