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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 03-01-2015, 08:37 AM   #201
mongidig
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
I think you should open a bit looser than normal there
If I thought I could steal all the dead money out there I would agree. I'm not getting how opening up our range here OOP against a guy who is never folding pre and is sticky post is a good idea.
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Old 03-02-2015, 02:40 AM   #202
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

A good thing to think about is HOW to widen your range.

If you expect to be HU against a sticky player, you want to open more Ahi Khi type hands that can win at showdown after he sticks around to SD. Avoid 45s, 89o type hands.

If you expect it to go multiway against many bad opponents, then you should play more suited connectors, mid-hi strength hands, and avoid A-rag, K-rag suited.

We are clearly in the first situation, and QJo is doing very well.
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Old 03-05-2015, 08:33 AM   #203
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Maniac opens UTG...he is raising about 90% of the time. He is also always putting in the last bet if given the opportunuty. He calms down a bit post flop and becomes more of a calling station when played back at. He will Donk and brl air.

I am next to act. It's a mix of tight Passives players and loose passive players behind me. The button is a TAG and probably the only player that might adjust to my increased ISO aggression against maniac.

How much should I open up my 3 bet range here given that I'm still in early position? I suspect the TAG will want to get involved on occasion and I would imagine some of the loose Passives will take three to the face as well periodically.
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Old 03-05-2015, 10:55 AM   #204
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

I'd only go so far as to 3 bet my default utg+1 opening range because from utg+1 it's too likely that we'll run into a big hand behind us. Probably this:

77+, ATo+, A8s+, KQo, KTs+, QJs, JTs.

As an aside, I'd probably open 3 bet that same range if there was a straddle.
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:17 AM   #205
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

In general against good players posts I tighten or do not change, against bad players posts I loosen up potentially substantially.

hand 1:

Jesse is in the cutoff and expert soul crusher has posted kill OTB. Jesse may actually be tighter than usual.

Hand 2:

Mouth breather checks post in cutoff after looking to confirm his hand is terrible, jesse could raise button up to 100%
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Old 03-05-2015, 04:36 PM   #206
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongidig View Post
Maniac opens UTG...he is raising about 90% of the time. He is also always putting in the last bet if given the opportunuty. He calms down a bit post flop and becomes more of a calling station when played back at. He will Donk and brl air.

I am next to act. It's a mix of tight Passives players and loose passive players behind me. The button is a TAG and probably the only player that might adjust to my increased ISO aggression against maniac.

How much should I open up my 3 bet range here given that I'm still in early position? I suspect the TAG will want to get involved on occasion and I would imagine some of the loose Passives will take three to the face as well periodically.
If he's really opening 90% and only one player might adjust, I'd be 3betting a ton. Like what I'd 3bet a 40-50% button open with, maybe a hair tighter. Once people start coldcapping KJs behind you, you can tighten up a little, but really getting this HU is such a win for you that you can take the worst of it sometimes.
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:41 PM   #207
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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Originally Posted by DosXX View Post
If he's really opening 90% and only one player might adjust, I'd be 3betting a ton. Like what I'd 3bet a 40-50% button open with, maybe a hair tighter. Once people start coldcapping KJs behind you, you can tighten up a little, but really getting this HU is such a win for you that you can take the worst of it sometimes.
I think it's definately worth it to push the limits in a such a potentially profitable situation.
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:03 PM   #208
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

I was playing in an extremely loose 8-16 game the other night and I do not think I adjusted correctly. It was extremely common for 5-6 players to see every flop, even if it was raised, but particularly if it was raised by me - and it was also common for it to get capped much more frequently than usual. My default play these days is to open 66+, AT+, JTs+ even from pretty early position - but when I'm opening 77, 88 or AJo from UTG or UTG+1 and I'm basically never narrowing the field and I'm frequently getting raised, I feel like I should stop raising those hands. Should I be limping my pairs up to 99 and just folding the AJ? I've definitely been "taking off the training wheels" lately, and maybe this qualifies as a situation to continue challenging myself, but... I feel like I should be adjusting in some way. No?
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Old 03-12-2015, 09:48 AM   #209
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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I was playing in an extremely loose 8-16 game the other night and I do not think I adjusted correctly. It was extremely common for 5-6 players to see every flop, even if it was raised, but particularly if it was raised by me - and it was also common for it to get capped much more frequently than usual. My default play these days is to open 66+, AT+, JTs+ even from pretty early position - but when I'm opening 77, 88 or AJo from UTG or UTG+1 and I'm basically never narrowing the field and I'm frequently getting raised, I feel like I should stop raising those hands. Should I be limping my pairs up to 99 and just folding the AJ? I've definitely been "taking off the training wheels" lately, and maybe this qualifies as a situation to continue challenging myself, but... I feel like I should be adjusting in some way. No?
Sounds like you are thinking along the right lines. I'd be limping pairs 22-77 and raising the rest. You can also start limping really speculative hands like J9s if it's not frequently raised and 3 bet after a few limpers. The offsuit big hands are tricky, I'd probably lean towards folding things like KJo and ATo if they are causing you trouble, you could limp hands like AJ and KQ if it's really playing 5-6 way every time you raise and don't feel super comfortable post flop. If it's biggish, connectidish, and suited you pretty much can't get it really wrong in spots like this either limping or raising.
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:59 PM   #210
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

yeah I have often caught myself making raises that are just exactly folding out worse hands lately. MikeL made a video about the merce 40 once where he lauded the virtues of open limping in good but not amazing games, basically saying that if you raise ATs you're not going to get action from T8o, but if you limp in you very likely will.
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Old 03-12-2015, 04:46 PM   #211
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

While not disagreeing with the general theme, I'd point out that thinking this way plays into the common mistakes of less confident players. It seems proper that there are some cusp hands that benefit more from not shaving all the hands that they dominate out of villain's ranges. This assumes A) we know which hands this is true for and B) the villains overlimp/overcall but would actually fold. Once true, our ATo loves playing vs the A9o and A8o of the world.

However if you're playing in a game that is a little wild for you and you're not confident, what's the mistake you're likely to make? You're going to play too many hands and play them too passively, especially you might take some clear raising hands and limp them to "see what comes". Now, noted pros are saying to do this. Even better, right? No. A few hands in a few spots are expert adjustments. Becoming loose/passive is still fishy. You're not playing that many more hands. You still really want to raise for value -- if you raise AJo (or AQo, which some timid people might add to limping) and someone calls the raise with worse, you aren't sad. The bigger mistake they want to make while dominated, the better.

So if you're not sure, be really afraid of your own bias to limp hands. Be sure you're right. People pound raise/fold for a reason. It isn't a 100% cure, but the idea is to overcome beginner's tendencies. The correct adjustment to these games likely is to not purely r/f, but if you let the limping impulse go wild, you're playing like a small stakes native (which isn't well).
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Old 03-12-2015, 06:09 PM   #212
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Sure. I'm just saying if pots are going off 5 ways open limping is fine

I'm seldom paying enough attention to do it
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Old 03-12-2015, 06:20 PM   #213
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Agreed
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Old 03-16-2015, 11:55 AM   #214
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

2 bad limpers, button raises. Button isn't super tight but has a decent overlimping range here, so this is a reasonably strong range. He's limping, ATo, t8s, k9s, and of course worse like 86s. He's raising the obvious hands plus big suited cards.

SB calls. I have QJs in BB. Do we reraise? Of importance is that button will almost never bet unimproved overcards/air on the flop adn will check lots of turns that aren't incredibly scary with medium strength hands.
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:13 PM   #215
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Seems like pretty obvious call there. I don't see a big need to take charge of the hand from the big blind and even though the limpers probably call a 3-bet, you certainly don't want to give them any reason to fold. I don't think 3-betting is super spew here, but calling makes a lot more sense.
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Old 03-16-2015, 10:29 PM   #216
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

yeah dos I wouldn't re-raise here. it gets real bad real quickly if one or both of the limpers fold (I've seen it more and more lately) and you're quite frankly probably way behind his range. Just make smoovie doo and be prepared to donk lots of flops.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:22 AM   #217
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DosXX View Post
2 bad limpers, button raises. Button isn't super tight but has a decent overlimping range here, so this is a reasonably strong range. He's limping, ATo, t8s, k9s, and of course worse like 86s. He's raising the obvious hands plus big suited cards.

SB calls. I have QJs in BB. Do we reraise? Of importance is that button will almost never bet unimproved overcards/air on the flop adn will check lots of turns that aren't incredibly scary with medium strength hands.
I suspect 3betting here will be one of those 0EV spews. I'm ok with it assuming you play like a god post-flop. Specifically, if you're not extremely good at knowing when to bluff and when not to bluff post-flop then I would be against a 3bet here.
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Old 03-17-2015, 11:14 AM   #218
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Dos just a man. Bleeds like all others.
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Old 03-18-2015, 12:51 PM   #219
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

I just called for all the reasons suggested.
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:03 PM   #220
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

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I just called for all the reasons suggested.
Especially the bleeding
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:22 AM   #221
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DosXX View Post
2 bad limpers, button raises. Button isn't super tight but has a decent overlimping range here, so this is a reasonably strong range. He's limping, ATo, t8s, k9s, and of course worse like 86s. He's raising the obvious hands plus big suited cards.

SB calls. I have QJs in BB. Do we reraise? Of importance is that button will almost never bet unimproved overcards/air on the flop adn will check lots of turns that aren't incredibly scary with medium strength hands.
I just call and prepare to donk favorable flops, though it's close.
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:05 PM   #222
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

4/8 full table

utg raises, 3 callers, I'm on the button with 77.

----

4/8 7 handed.

A guy who normally plays 20/40 posts $4 cutoff.

one limp, cutoff raises, button calls, I'm in the small blind with Q6s.
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Old 03-26-2015, 12:38 PM   #223
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
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4/8 full table

utg raises, 3 callers, I'm on the button with 77.

----

4/8 7 handed.

A guy who normally plays 20/40 posts $4 cutoff.

one limp, cutoff raises, button calls, I'm in the small blind with Q6s.
Call fold
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Old 03-26-2015, 07:45 PM   #224
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob148 View Post
4/8 full table

utg raises, 3 callers, I'm on the button with 77.

----

4/8 7 handed.

A guy who normally plays 20/40 posts $4 cutoff.

one limp, cutoff raises, button calls, I'm in the small blind with Q6s.
Call hand 1

Fold hand 2
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Old 03-26-2015, 08:36 PM   #225
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Re: Pre flop check up posts.

Loose/passive table. 9 handed. Flops go off 5-7 ways. Almost never 3b pf.

UTG limps, Hero is UTG+1 with QJo.
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