Heh, okay fine, yes. Still don't think having to peel the flop constitutes much playability issues .

So you don't play it after the flop, which is what I said. You need 7-to-1 w 77-. 77 is 3bettable IMO, fold the rest.

Don't fold pairs unless you get as lost as LoL postflop.

Dumbass gonna dumbass

One over flops are unplayable in multiways, so you need a set, a straight draw or a paired board, and even Phil Ivey is playing out of position. Even at a generous 6-to-1, you're not even close.

Straddle pots get capped easily. I call 77,88 and raise 99+. These pre errors add up.

If the table is playing aggressive your implied odds go up but the cap odds go up too.

A bit related with this topic but with a different hand type and situation
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/5...-spot-1691623/

FR
4 or 5 limpers ( i think was 4 but not 6) and sb raise we have 98s in BB.
I decide to 3bet for 2 reasons, lot of dead money might be present if lots of them fold which imo would be great.
second, we have a hand that play good in multiway pot if i get a lot of callers.

For 1 more sb, seem to be a good investment to 3bet ?
toughts ?

Mostly standard table, but we have a tight lady to our right. We're in the CO. Tight lady to our right limps. Let's say for the sake of argument that we have not seen the SB and BTN do a lot of cold-calling pre. Let's also say for the sake of argument that for the most part post-flop raises have been two pair or better (so, fairly passive postflop). What are our calling and raising ranges? How do they change if either SB, BTN or both have been shown to be willing to cold-call pre? How do they change if the villains have been shown to be willing to bet or raise pairs and/or draws?

In the multiway, what if half fold and half call? Then the hot and cold equity is not so good.

I think you should construct a range w tight lady that gives around 45% equity. While you have the worst hand you have position and knock out the blinds potentially. Perhaps even lower if you have fold equity post flop.

Because you hate money?

If you're relying on creating dead money you're being overly optimistic, imo. And while it plays well for 3b in a big mw pot it prolly plays even better for 2b. On top of that your absolute and relative positions are poor. And you have nine high.

It's not the end of the world if you 3b, hardly moneyhating if you're thinking about your whole range postflop. But I think you can do better.

well my point was online, i see players limp sometimes ( not rarely) fold when its get 2bet back to them.
True we have the 2nd worst position and worst relative position.
This is why i was thinking of a 3bet, seem if i got couple fold it s good, if not it still good if i hit a good draw or hand, help mix a bit when i dont have nutz AA-KK when i 3bet here as well.

And by raising i can of negate my worst relative posiition?
I just think that mid suited connector plays well when you have position for only calling here.
obv it is fine calling here but since the raisor pf was at our right ( giving us the worst position) and not at our left ( like utg giving us the best relative position), i was thinking mayeb a 3bet was in this case correct , especially if we can get dead money in.

Considering the play in front of me, tight lady at live low limits is playing actually tight and pretty strfwd. I want to play only for a raise and prolly a notch tighter than I'd open had she folded, being quicker to fold my weakest offsuit stuff.

Considering the players behind me, I'm looking at, in order, the button, *the bb*, and then the SB with the last being way less impt than the others. You're not getting grand mw pots here so tighten up your weaker connectors/gap hands if they like to cc. Can you get them to fold when you want folds or call when you want calls postflop? Passive postflop means on those streets you need to tighten up the bottom of your value range and bluff less accordingly. That may affect pf hand selection with your weakest offsuit hands that tend to have just a middling pair when you're considering betting turn and river.

Why do you want people to fold when you have 9 high?

well has the number of players drop my possible pair of 9 should go up in value.

You need to read small stakes hold em by ed Miller. Not being mean.

Wouldnt you 3bet with 88 here in the BB instead of 98s ?

You realize 88 is a completely different hand than 98s

You don’t HAVE a pair of 9s right now with your 98s

With 88, it you can get it heads up with PFR, that’s amazing

With 98s I want all 10 players calling two bets. Flop an OESD, and get them all to pay 4 bets on the flop and turn and spike the nuts on the river

With 88 I want it heads up with a T42 flop and have AK call me down

of course but my point was that by 3betting, if i can create dead money by some fold, and it ends up HU or 3way, my hand should of gain some EV because now i am just not aiming for straight or flushes but hitting 1 pair of 8 or 9 should have some chance to win as well.

You have MF 9 high?

Why do you want to isolate yourself vs the PFR with 9 high

You are either trolling or you need to seriously need up on poker theory. Not being mean.

has i said before ( and imo you did not talked about those points)because:
- the pf raisor was at my directly to my right ( if he was to my left or i had 1 or players between us i would not 3 bet)
- i was already in the BB, cheaper to 3bet.
- there was some good chances to create dead money in the pot and if it failed it still a great hand to play multiway.
- instead of having the worst relative position at the table , playing a hand that not really like being oop i changed the flow of the hand.
- great spot to mix it up imo with my AA,KK,etc.

ps: all i am saying is because of those points, i cant see past them to make me understand i am wrong if they are not adress with.

i just thought a lot of factors was present in that exactly present situation for a 3bet.
Might not be a +ev play but i doubt it -ev play as well here.

Here’s a good rule of thumb. If you have a drawing head, you want all 9 opponents to call

If you have a vulnerable hand, like AQo or TT, you want to limit the field to a few opponents

98s is a drawing hand. You want everyone calling. When you hit a draw or a good hand. You start raising and charging them.

I wouldn't 3-bet here with 98s, but it's not really that simple (since you're talking about poker theory). If it were a 4-8 game and a million dollar splash pot, and you somehow knew that all the other players would fold to a 3-bet, you would definitely want to make it.

Of course this is an unlikely scenario, but the distinction between made hand and drawing hand is rather arbitrary, and your preferred action always has to do with the size of the pot and the tendencies of the other players. And there is always some benefit to having dead money in the pot.

20/40 live 9 handed.

Folded to me in HJ...I have Qd9d. This is a standard open for me. The CO cold calls a ton and the button is very laggy pre flop. The blinds are tight regs. Should I tighten up a bit and ditch this hand?

20/40 live 9 handed.

UTG has posted a straddle. He is fairly laggy pre and will 4 bet if he has a reasonably strong hand as well as some suited hands. He's a calling station post flop.

The button is very loose and passive pre. He's called 3 bets with 99's and 75s. He seems to cold call a bunch.

Blinds are both tight.

Folded to me in CO. I have A6o. Is this still a standard 3 bet given my reads? How thinly will you 3 bet here?