Quote:
Originally Posted by leavesofliberty
But the bet sweets the pot and law there is no reason to fear being 3bet 100% esp since A has showdown value. Also V's range is not 100% though it would be cool if it were. I think you have to keep your raising standard about the same to a little looser, but perhaps not A4, because to tighten up seems like you're saying the post in is not a disadvantage where clearly it must be or everyone would do it. Unless I am missing something?
What do you all think are optimal raise and call standards for the post-in?
Let's assume I have a raising range for HJ. It is based in part on the fold equity I have from the CO and the BUT. In other words, I can raise some marginal hands that wouldn't actually like a 5-way pot, because most of the time I am not going to get a 5 way pot. Rather, the CO and BUT will "respect" my raise. This is poker 101- the gap concept. You can raise with a wider range than the caller/3-bettor can play once you have raised.
Without opining absolutely about A4 off, somewhat weak offsuit aces certainly can plausibly be part of that range. Your raise will often get you heads up or in a 3 way hand against the blinds, and having ace-high in position is a pretty decent holding in that situation. (And of course sometimes you will successfully steal the blinds too.)
Now, let's change the simulation. Let's assume you are playing a home game, and let's make the house rule that the guy acting after the pre-flop raiser is required to cold-call. How should that affect your raising range?
It should be pretty obvious. The hands that are most likely to be harmed by the cold-caller are weak offsuit aces. They are now going to miss a lot of flops, with only one overcard (and thus an apparent 3 out draw), unlike AT+, they are going to be vulnerable to flop raises (or flop bets if you check) by the player in position, they don't flop flush draws very often (unlike a suited ace), etc.
Plus, there's a schooling effect. The CO's call makes the BUT, SB, and BB more likely to call, which means that rather than stealing some blinds and seeing some 2 way and 3 way pots in position, you are now going to be seeing a lot of 5 way pots out of position.
So you should drop them from your raising range, while still raising hands that don't mind that scenario that much. For instance, QT suited is a wonderful hand to raise from the HJ in that situation.
What I'm trying to say is that basically having a poster in the CO is almost exactly the same as having that rule. The CO poster is going to play a huge percentage of hands. So you are basically never going to get the conditions which are the reason you might want to raise a weak offsuit ace from the hijack.