Been meaning to post about this but keep forgetting. The 8/16 game I frequent has implemented a button straddle, where the small blind acts first and you can put in up to five bets preflop. It's put me in some spots I'm not very familiar with.

We'll just assume the game is loose and slightly aggressive, which is usually the case. While it's not the norm for it go five bets before the flop, it's also not that uncommon. The button straddle has definitely ramped up the action in a game that typically doesn't need any help with that.

What is your small blind calling range? Can we agree that this is not a 100% 3-bet or fold situation?

What are the worst hands you're three betting from the small blind?

How light are you defending the big blind? I am liberal big blind defender, but I feel like this scenario changes things.

Is this just when the game is three-handed or can the button straddle a full game? And who acts first when the button straddles, does UTG or act or is it immediately on the sb?

Sounds like FR game with "Mississippi" straddle, so SB acts first on every street. That's punishing for the SB, for sure.

^ Yes

That's brutal, if you are the blinds when someone straddles you have to switch seats. I don't know exactly what my range would be, but if my opponents are playing hands, it would be very tight and I wouldn't have a cold calling range.

I don't think you can fold the QT suited from the small blind and I don't think 3-betting is the best play.

With a button straddle, I think your cold call range should be the same as your UTG limping range without a straddle. Do you have one? I really like raising straddlers, so I don't cold call anything in this situation.

I very rarely employ an open-limping strategy. I guess I should be 3-betting all the hands I'd open with UTG? While I generally don't expect to have position when I open UTG, there is at least some chance I'll be heads up against a blind or two, but in this situation, there is 99% chance I will be out of position against at least one player. I'm not sure if that should make a difference or not. There is such little chance of isolating the straddle in this situation that you can't 3-bet too liberally.

You're right that this spot is slightly worse than opening UTG. The pot has extra blinds, though one of the blinds is the BTN and he's not giving up a ton of equity. If the second part seems wrong, let's think about a game where you could post your BB in any position.
Let's say that you're 3 betting your normal range (you're tight, like you are UTG+2 3 betting UTG). Anyone who plays a non-premium is making a huge mistake. Thus, any hand in that range loves the fact that it can't isolate the straddle. There hasn't been a premium range announced, because you're not facing an UTG raise. Thus, let's think about your normal premium hands. They still like any non-premium played against them. So if the pot goes off 5 ways to your SB 3 bet, most of the hands you want to play are just happy. "Too liberally??" OK, we're not opening Ax to play HU vs the straddle. Still, everyone playing terribly in the game is good for us overall.

Yeah, there are some weird spots though. Like the previously mentioned QT suited when you're in the small blind - a hand I raise 98% from UTG. Or a hand like 66. I can see an argument for 3-betting the QTs; I can't really see it for the 66, but I also don't think we should be folding it.

The big blind is even trickier, especially if the small blind flats. Normally I would defend a large amount of hands against a raise but it didn't take long for me to realize this is probably a mistake in this game. Small blind calls, you call with 54o and it's three more bets back to you. Whoops. Small blind calls, what do you do with A8s? QJo? I guess we just flat there?

Start with 66. If the game is going to be called by 7 people after you "limp" in the SB, 66 plays fine OOP. In this game it could also be correct to limp 66 UTG. 7:1 is about the correct price to set mine and if it goes off 8 ways for a lolcap...

You're exploiting them for being terrible, and you're also being priced in by the extra blind.

I don't think A8s plays great OOP in a juiced pot. You especially hate it if all smaller Ax and Axs are folded and the bigger ones correctly re-raise and punish you. It depends on ranges and how we'll they play position. KTs and QTs are worse because they have non-nut draws. I think I'd play tighter than some of the best players who post on this board, and I'd be OK knowing that. The normal BB is closing the action (even vs. the opener with no limpers before) and here it isn't. Position matters...

The dirty little secret (and I say this as someone who has the utmost respect for good LAG's and LAGTAG's) is that you are probably right and they are wrong about this.

Re: that Mississippi straddle game. You guys are thinking about it wrong because you are used to the blinds being second to last and last to act pre. Here you need to play incredibly tight from small blind and weird from big blind. The price in the small blind sucks and there are 8 players left to act, play your utg range. Big blind is weird because the pot odds are more compelling but still effective odds if pots get jammed a lot are bad. So you need to find the balance or be very correct about the preflop tendencies / mood of the table. And yes you should be 3 betting most hands you play from either any spot as you are basically opening and there is extra money in the pot so yes it should generate some extra action as there is proper incentive to fight for the antes. I would 3 bet 66 and QTs but I would not call very much from either spot.

I don't see how you can fold a hand like J8s in the big blind and I don't think raising there is the best play. You can justify a calling range in the big blind.

Probably because you play in very soft games a lot and DD likely doesn't play in very soft games that often.

Yeah I would wanna play J8s there too so I would likely try to come up with a weird strategy where I call some pretty strong hands to protect my weaker ones but there is a world of difference between a game where you call and the pot goes off 6 ways for two bets each vs a tough one where it's usually gonna come back to you for two or three more
Bets and only 4 ways. Now you are OOP in a bloated pot against strong ranges and smart opponents.

In normal BB defense, you're often closing the action. Somebody opens and a few people call, you call or fold. Maybe in a really soft game the action is more random. Some number of people limp, there's a raise, some callers, and you have to call but while knowing how many in the field. Since LRR isn't common, you still probably know that you're facing one more bet most of the time. Thus, BTN straddle, SB first to act, and then UTG has to be way worse. You don't know how many in the pot. You don't know that everyone is only medium excited (at best) about their hands.

The only advantage is that in a normal pot, one person has said "I like my hand". But you're calling with 7-8 behind, and hoping that nobody does.
+1

Yes, no doubt about it - the 8/16 games I play in are really good. If this was the 20/40 I play in sometimes I would probably find the J8s more problematic and I'd want to fold way more often. But since this situation is specific to the 8/16 I play in, I'm not really trying to see things outside of that vacuum.

Online 30-60 and anonymous tables. Fold bb first hand, second hand there is a EP raise and we cold call sb with QQ+. This has to be correct right

Could probably do it wider but only want hands that really dominate bb

not 3-bet why?

Because it doesn't cost that much, if anything and I would assume anyone that it sucks. Anonymous tables being the key hete

Live 30/60, full 9 handed table.
UTG limps and guy directly to his left limps - both fairly terrible older gentleman and they've been open limping often.
Younger headphones wearing guy to my right also limps - a little surprising, he seems pretty solid and tight.
i'm in the HJ with AJo. This is an automatic raise right?

Yes auto raise.

I can't imagine any range that two people who limp "fairly offen" and an aggro kid can have here that I wouldn't want to raise AJo against.

Very standard situation, but I had an argument with a friend about it, so see what you think.

Someone with a narrow or reasonably narrow raising range raises in early position. Someone else with a narrow 3-betting range 3-bets. A fish cold calls the three bets, and it folds around to us in the BB with a small pocket pair.

Do we call or fold?