OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)
07-09-2014
, 04:24 PM
That sounds like a bad relationship to me.
Flop check raising is heavily opponent and board dependent, and is probably thread worthy. Lots of players like to check call flops with the intention of check raising turns, which I think is wrong unless your opponent barrels at a very high frequency. I like to check raise a lot, so maybe I'm biased. Strong draws? Yeah I'm check raising them against everyone but the loosest of fish. The ability to win the hand unimproved is a huge bonus. Weak draws? It really depends on the board and my opponent. The thing about check raising for thin value is that if you never get caught bluffing, then you're not getting the action you want on your good hands. So you end up collapsing your opponent's range to nothing but strong hands if you never check raise bluff the flop. I think this is why you said you have trouble running into top pairs when you check raise. They just fold worse because you don't bluff enough. I think that if you're bluffing enough with flop check raises then you'll start getting the action you want on your good hands.
All that said, it's pretty easy to go overboard with check raises against the wrong type of opponent. Against nits, check raising top pair can be a mistake sometimes. Against lags who bet the turn selectively, not check raising middle pair can be a mistake. Knowing your opponent is important, which is why I recommend experimenting on the margins.
Oh, and if you ever find an opponent who shows a ton of respect to check raises on the flop, then that increase of postflop fold equity can make hands that were previously folds preflop into very playable hands.
Here's one against a wanna be tag tilter who likes to throw his cards at the dealer in disgust when he thinks he's beat. I took special pleasure in giving him the opportunity to do so in this hand:
he opens utg at a full table, folds to me in the big blind and I call 7
2 and intend to check raise every flop.
38Q
I check, he bets, I raise, he throws his cards at the dealer and the J flashes. What could he possibly have that folded? JTs? no that would've had a flush draw. KJo? Should've called imo. JJ? Lol at him. I can't think of a single hand with the J in it that should be opened from that position and folded on the flop. Dude sucks at poker. In the future I plan to defend very wide and check raise the **** outta this guy until he adjusts. I may pass on some flops that don't give me much equity and or smash his range, but the plan is to cash in on his horrible postflop play by defending way more than I should be allowed to and check raising many flops.
Flop check raising is heavily opponent and board dependent, and is probably thread worthy. Lots of players like to check call flops with the intention of check raising turns, which I think is wrong unless your opponent barrels at a very high frequency. I like to check raise a lot, so maybe I'm biased. Strong draws? Yeah I'm check raising them against everyone but the loosest of fish. The ability to win the hand unimproved is a huge bonus. Weak draws? It really depends on the board and my opponent. The thing about check raising for thin value is that if you never get caught bluffing, then you're not getting the action you want on your good hands. So you end up collapsing your opponent's range to nothing but strong hands if you never check raise bluff the flop. I think this is why you said you have trouble running into top pairs when you check raise. They just fold worse because you don't bluff enough. I think that if you're bluffing enough with flop check raises then you'll start getting the action you want on your good hands.
All that said, it's pretty easy to go overboard with check raises against the wrong type of opponent. Against nits, check raising top pair can be a mistake sometimes. Against lags who bet the turn selectively, not check raising middle pair can be a mistake. Knowing your opponent is important, which is why I recommend experimenting on the margins.
Oh, and if you ever find an opponent who shows a ton of respect to check raises on the flop, then that increase of postflop fold equity can make hands that were previously folds preflop into very playable hands.
Here's one against a wanna be tag tilter who likes to throw his cards at the dealer in disgust when he thinks he's beat. I took special pleasure in giving him the opportunity to do so in this hand:
he opens utg at a full table, folds to me in the big blind and I call 7
2 and intend to check raise every flop. 3
8QI check, he bets, I raise, he throws his cards at the dealer and the J
flashes. What could he possibly have that folded? JTs? no that would've had a flush draw. KJo? Should've called imo. JJ? Lol at him. I can't think of a single hand with the J in it that should be opened from that position and folded on the flop. Dude sucks at poker. In the future I plan to defend very wide and check raise the **** outta this guy until he adjusts. I may pass on some flops that don't give me much equity and or smash his range, but the plan is to cash in on his horrible postflop play by defending way more than I should be allowed to and check raising many flops.
07-10-2014
, 06:47 AM
Quote:
That sounds like a bad relationship to me.
Flop check raising is heavily opponent and board dependent, and is probably thread worthy. Lots of players like to check call flops with the intention of check raising turns, which I think is wrong unless your opponent barrels at a very high frequency. I like to check raise a lot, so maybe I'm biased. Strong draws? Yeah I'm check raising them against everyone but the loosest of fish. The ability to win the hand unimproved is a huge bonus. Weak draws? It really depends on the board and my opponent. The thing about check raising for thin value is that if you never get caught bluffing, then you're not getting the action you want on your good hands. So you end up collapsing your opponent's range to nothing but strong hands if you never check raise bluff the flop. I think this is why you said you have trouble running into top pairs when you check raise. They just fold worse because you don't bluff enough. I think that if you're bluffing enough with flop check raises then you'll start getting the action you want on your good hands.
All that said, it's pretty easy to go overboard with check raises against the wrong type of opponent. Against nits, check raising top pair can be a mistake sometimes. Against lags who bet the turn selectively, not check raising middle pair can be a mistake. Knowing your opponent is important, which is why I recommend experimenting on the margins.
Oh, and if you ever find an opponent who shows a ton of respect to check raises on the flop, then that increase of postflop fold equity can make hands that were previously folds preflop into very playable hands.
Here's one against a wanna be tag tilter who likes to throw his cards at the dealer in disgust when he thinks he's beat. I took special pleasure in giving him the opportunity to do so in this hand:
he opens utg at a full table, folds to me in the big blind and I call 72 and intend to check raise every flop.
38Q
I check, he bets, I raise, he throws his cards at the dealer and the J flashes. What could he possibly have that folded? JTs? no that would've had a flush draw. KJo? Should've called imo. JJ? Lol at him. I can't think of a single hand with the J in it that should be opened from that position and folded on the flop. Dude sucks at poker. In the future I plan to defend very wide and check raise the **** outta this guy until he adjusts. I may pass on some flops that don't give me much equity and or smash his range, but the plan is to cash in on his horrible postflop play by defending way more than I should be allowed to and check raising many flops.
Flop check raising is heavily opponent and board dependent, and is probably thread worthy. Lots of players like to check call flops with the intention of check raising turns, which I think is wrong unless your opponent barrels at a very high frequency. I like to check raise a lot, so maybe I'm biased. Strong draws? Yeah I'm check raising them against everyone but the loosest of fish. The ability to win the hand unimproved is a huge bonus. Weak draws? It really depends on the board and my opponent. The thing about check raising for thin value is that if you never get caught bluffing, then you're not getting the action you want on your good hands. So you end up collapsing your opponent's range to nothing but strong hands if you never check raise bluff the flop. I think this is why you said you have trouble running into top pairs when you check raise. They just fold worse because you don't bluff enough. I think that if you're bluffing enough with flop check raises then you'll start getting the action you want on your good hands.
All that said, it's pretty easy to go overboard with check raises against the wrong type of opponent. Against nits, check raising top pair can be a mistake sometimes. Against lags who bet the turn selectively, not check raising middle pair can be a mistake. Knowing your opponent is important, which is why I recommend experimenting on the margins.
Oh, and if you ever find an opponent who shows a ton of respect to check raises on the flop, then that increase of postflop fold equity can make hands that were previously folds preflop into very playable hands.
Here's one against a wanna be tag tilter who likes to throw his cards at the dealer in disgust when he thinks he's beat. I took special pleasure in giving him the opportunity to do so in this hand:
he opens utg at a full table, folds to me in the big blind and I call 7
2 and intend to check raise every flop. 3
8QI check, he bets, I raise, he throws his cards at the dealer and the J
flashes. What could he possibly have that folded? JTs? no that would've had a flush draw. KJo? Should've called imo. JJ? Lol at him. I can't think of a single hand with the J in it that should be opened from that position and folded on the flop. Dude sucks at poker. In the future I plan to defend very wide and check raise the **** outta this guy until he adjusts. I may pass on some flops that don't give me much equity and or smash his range, but the plan is to cash in on his horrible postflop play by defending way more than I should be allowed to and check raising many flops.
yeah that is a bad relationship so im a bit wary.
I definitely get your point , honestly though I haven't had much training in the c/r they fold department as ive mainly played 5/Tc and unless they are the few 15/8/4 players they aint folding.
But i get the gist of what you mean and im definitely gonna think of that when i study next time / and play ..
07-10-2014
, 02:19 PM
Quote:
all time all stakes. (not entirely the truth)
25/50c position
So Im trying to get up to 25/50c and as you can see ive stayed at the 5/Tc for way too long. my 10/20c is basically straight down to -800BB then back up to what it is now. Im not bothered by that. What im bothered about is that this is my without having an exact number I know it is my more than 10 times try to get up to 25/50c and stay there. I kept deleting all my hands because it was always -$200 then delete then -200 again and so forth if i had kept all the hands i would probably have stopped playing poker just looking at the horrible numbers. sometimes it would even be a mere 100BB and i would be done trying. These stats is decreasing as i go up in stakes. I take it as just an increase in aggression which im not super used to when ive played 164k at 5/Tc where its 5man pots all the time.
Is these stats so bad that I can't even beat 25/50c ? or am I just tilting in my head.
Ive had a lot of people who have seen my game and ask why arent you at 1/2 yet and stuff like that. I know its supposed to be an encouragement but as it is right now it feels more like depressing than anything else.
any tips to help me in what area i should improve on or is it just grind away ? or am i just that bad that I simply have to settle for being a 5/Tc grinder for the rest of my miserable poker life. yes right now im tilted as f.. just thinking about how pathetic it feels like i cant even beat 25/50c .. bahhhhhh.
25/50c position
So Im trying to get up to 25/50c and as you can see ive stayed at the 5/Tc for way too long. my 10/20c is basically straight down to -800BB then back up to what it is now. Im not bothered by that. What im bothered about is that this is my without having an exact number I know it is my more than 10 times try to get up to 25/50c and stay there. I kept deleting all my hands because it was always -$200 then delete then -200 again and so forth if i had kept all the hands i would probably have stopped playing poker just looking at the horrible numbers. sometimes it would even be a mere 100BB and i would be done trying. These stats is decreasing as i go up in stakes. I take it as just an increase in aggression which im not super used to when ive played 164k at 5/Tc where its 5man pots all the time.
Is these stats so bad that I can't even beat 25/50c ? or am I just tilting in my head.
Ive had a lot of people who have seen my game and ask why arent you at 1/2 yet and stuff like that. I know its supposed to be an encouragement but as it is right now it feels more like depressing than anything else.
any tips to help me in what area i should improve on or is it just grind away ? or am i just that bad that I simply have to settle for being a 5/Tc grinder for the rest of my miserable poker life. yes right now im tilted as f.. just thinking about how pathetic it feels like i cant even beat 25/50c .. bahhhhhh.
Gl, anyway
Last edited by ISilly_DurrrAK; 07-10-2014 at 02:33 PM.
07-10-2014
, 02:22 PM
07-10-2014
, 02:26 PM
07-10-2014
, 02:30 PM
07-25-2014
, 07:00 AM
Quote:
Your stats are just horrible by modern standards, my current stats full ring are more aggressive in almost all respects except pfr (16.66). Change your timid lullaby 27.7/19.7/8.39/38.7/1.73/43.2 to, say serious more heavy metal style 32/23/12/40/1.99/52 ASAP and you'll crush 0.25. And maybe being such a rock u could benefit from moving to FR?
Gl, anyway
Gl, anyway
I would however say that I will never ever move to FR :P thats just so boring its crazy, I once fell asleep 10 tabling 2/4c fr tables (was showing my friend its possible to multi table that much and still win at 2/4c) ive played a total of 5k hands at maximum of any FR cash nl or FL. and I can honestly say its the worst at least for me.
But my current stats at 25/50c this month is about 34/24/13 and i plan to keep it this way. playing and beating these guys seem MUCH easier now. like instead of me having to fold and be aggressed now its me making them fold :P
07-26-2014
, 11:50 PM
More than ever I'm convinced that playing a tighter game overall and overlimping more with suited 1 gaps, connectors 98+, and Axs in the face of 1-2 limps is crucial to success in loose/passive games at stakes lower than .50/1.00.
edit: keep in mind this is a pretty low amount of hands shown, the gap between vpip / pfr should not be getting wider as the stakes go up, thats a little weird. but the overall 7500 hands @ 4BB/100 should speak for itself i think.
Last edited by beerstorm; 07-27-2014 at 12:16 AM.
07-28-2014
, 05:00 PM
Quote:
1) thats a horrible assumption to make for loose passives (0-5 or 10 pfr), which you will find plenty of in the micros. Its much better to make this assumption when you are playing against limping loose players that are mild to medium aggressive. Point being, don't just throw a big "his hand sucks" blanket over anyone limping with a high vpip. aggression must be factored in.
No, that would be a free river card. By raising the flop in position people might check the turn to you so you can choose to see the river without paying anything on the turn. Basically you pay 1BB to see both expensive streets rather than 1.5BB.
The biggest problem I'm having with your line of reasoning is that you reduce Axs to something you hunt flushes with. It's worth more than that imo.
Apart from what I already mentioned, other good things can happen when you raise:
5) You buy the button and get the huge advantage of acting last on each round postflop.
6) You expand your raising range which makes you harder to read. Not a big issue until maybe 0.50/1.00 but depending on opponents you have at the table, might be worth considering.
7) You don't let BB play for free and suck out on you with 94o. Don't you hate when that happens
Finally, don't think I always raise Axs. I said "if I decide to play it". I quite often just fold it if I'm in HJ or UTG.
Btw, I am assuming 6max here.
Last edited by SirDilac; 07-28-2014 at 05:15 PM.
05-08-2015
, 02:44 PM
hi
well it happens, hit the bigest downswing of my career for couple weeks now
.
i was not using pokertracker for the last 2 years minimum , close to 3.
i was going ok until the latest days...
so i download pokertracker trial for 30 days and put some hands in there, well the last 160k hands.
i know it is not 1 million but i guess even tho small, some conclusion could be extract from it.
first off !
money won without SD is like - 6800$ while money won with SD is like + 6600$.
is this normal and what does it means ?
for the other stats i wonder ,
am i really too loose or not enough aggro , SD monkey , etc.
what should i focus on to get better or am i standard and just accept my downswing will pass...
32.2 vpip
21 pfr
1.35 total af
46.8 total afq
43.25 WTSD%
54.4 WSD
those are stats from .1/.2 to 3$/6$ table.
now where it does hurt the most for losing money ( and the stats are changing a bit) from a 25k hands ( those are the downswing from couple weeks now...)
29.4 vpip
18.9 PFR
1.29 total AF
45.8 total afq
42.9 WTSD%
55 WSD
oh yeah... for overall result coming from the blinds, seem i do ok below.
what do you think because this is the most challenging for me and where my play differ the most day to day, not having yet a definite hand range for blind defense and postflop strategy...
SB 35k hands
41 vpip
28.5 pfr
1.75 total AF
52.7 total afq
42.5 WtSD%
54.2 WSD
running at -0.08 bb/hand
BB 35k hands
43.7 vpip
8 pfr ( i never 3 bet from BB unless SB open raise...)
1.10 total AF
40.3 total afq
39.7 WTSD
54.6 WSD
runing at -0.16 bb/hand
sorry if this is a bit long and since i am really not a know user for pokertraker, maybe some stats are missing but i really need some feedback to know if im ok and where m,y numbers seem off ?
i shall take a break from playing because i just do not know what to do anymore and i am asking to myself how to play poker because i do not how anymore, thinking about quitting for some big time lenght...
thx
i forgot BU stats as well...
38.85 vpip
34.7 pfr
1.32 total af
48 total afq
45.78 WTSD ( maybe this is too high ?)
53.6 WSD
running at 0.13 bb/hand , is this too low ?
ty again all!
well it happens, hit the bigest downswing of my career for couple weeks now
.i was not using pokertracker for the last 2 years minimum , close to 3.
i was going ok until the latest days...
so i download pokertracker trial for 30 days and put some hands in there, well the last 160k hands.
i know it is not 1 million but i guess even tho small, some conclusion could be extract from it.
first off !
money won without SD is like - 6800$ while money won with SD is like + 6600$.
is this normal and what does it means ?
for the other stats i wonder ,
am i really too loose or not enough aggro , SD monkey , etc.
what should i focus on to get better or am i standard and just accept my downswing will pass...
32.2 vpip
21 pfr
1.35 total af
46.8 total afq
43.25 WTSD%
54.4 WSD
those are stats from .1/.2 to 3$/6$ table.
now where it does hurt the most for losing money ( and the stats are changing a bit) from a 25k hands ( those are the downswing from couple weeks now...)
29.4 vpip
18.9 PFR
1.29 total AF
45.8 total afq
42.9 WTSD%
55 WSD
oh yeah... for overall result coming from the blinds, seem i do ok below.
what do you think because this is the most challenging for me and where my play differ the most day to day, not having yet a definite hand range for blind defense and postflop strategy...
SB 35k hands
41 vpip
28.5 pfr
1.75 total AF
52.7 total afq
42.5 WtSD%
54.2 WSD
running at -0.08 bb/hand
BB 35k hands
43.7 vpip
8 pfr ( i never 3 bet from BB unless SB open raise...)
1.10 total AF
40.3 total afq
39.7 WTSD
54.6 WSD
runing at -0.16 bb/hand
sorry if this is a bit long and since i am really not a know user for pokertraker, maybe some stats are missing but i really need some feedback to know if im ok and where m,y numbers seem off ?
i shall take a break from playing because i just do not know what to do anymore and i am asking to myself how to play poker because i do not how anymore, thinking about quitting for some big time lenght...
thx
i forgot BU stats as well...
38.85 vpip
34.7 pfr
1.32 total af
48 total afq
45.78 WTSD ( maybe this is too high ?)
53.6 WSD
running at 0.13 bb/hand , is this too low ?
ty again all!