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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 04-11-2010, 02:13 AM   #51
Searix
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Ok, i'm making a pitstop here. I think i'm leaking bad, but i can't figure out where.




One thing it might be: Should i be calling or 3!ing TT-JJ? Is AKo a 4! ?

Also calling raises in BB with 56s-910s heads up, or any 1-gappers off 56+ against 2 others.

If it's not those i can't think of anything
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:31 AM   #52
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searix View Post
One thing it might be: Should i be calling or 3!ing TT-JJ? Is AKo a 4! ?
3!ing, 3!ing, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searix View Post
Also calling raises in BB with 56s-910s heads up, or any 1-gappers off 56+ against 2 others.
It sorta depends on what position the raise comes from. For example, I won't call 56s in the BB against an UTG raiser most of the time, but I would not dream of folding it against a button opener. For the most part, I doubt that it would be much of an error regardless, provided you c/r bluff a few flops here and there.

Calling 56o in the BB against a raiser and a cold-caller is also completely fine, imo.

-----

As for your stats, it's good that you've reduced your cold-calling so drastically. Some stuff I see right off the bat still:

At .25/.5 - and at FR to add - it looks like you're going to showdown entirely too often. I'd post a few hands where you question whether or not you should see showdown, because it's possible that you're being too stubborn and never folding.

Small sample size aside, you're way, way, way over-defending your SB. What's your opening range on the SB? Isolating range against different positions? 3!ing ranges?

You're only c-betting the flop 88% of the time, which seems really low. Are you just in a ton of 4-way+ pots with bad people, are you checking and giving up too quickly, etc.?

Have you ironed out most of your PF play yet? Your PF stats look a lot better, but I saw that one post in the SN grinders thread where you had, what, K4s in the SB, and you called 2.5 bets after a raise and a 3!? If you're doing that kind of stuff regularly, you're going to end up bleeding money.
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Old 04-11-2010, 04:02 AM   #53
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesBJames View Post
Small sample size aside, you're way, way, way over-defending your SB. What's your opening range on the SB? Isolating range against different positions? 3!ing ranges?
SB:
Open: suited 1 gappers 22+, 56+, Q-Kxs, Ax, 98o+
Iso: UTG-MP: 22+, 56s+, QJo+, ATo+
CO-BTN: 22+, 56s+, 109o+, Axo+
2+: 22+, 56s+, 67o+, QTo+, ATo+
3!: 99+, AJs+, AQo+

Quote:
You're only c-betting the flop 88% of the time, which seems really low. Are you just in a ton of 4-way+ pots with bad people, are you checking and giving up too quickly, etc.?
Normally 95%ish, insane amount of AQo 4-way Kxx flops.

Quote:
Have you ironed out most of your PF play yet? Your PF stats look a lot better, but I saw that one post in the SN grinders thread where you had, what, K4s in the SB, and you called 2.5 bets after a raise and a 3!? If you're doing that kind of stuff regularly, you're going to end up bleeding money.
Yah calling it with a 3! was a bit of spew (i actually think i misclicked, i call one raise).

http://www.lowlimitholdem.com/articl...ing_hands.html

My starting hands bible.
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Old 04-11-2010, 04:49 PM   #54
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Also, said requested more hands:

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Old 04-11-2010, 05:23 PM   #55
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

You seem to defend your sb too much. I would say 75-85% is ideal. Your ATS is too low, especially from the sb. SB ATS should be > 50% imo. And > 40% from BTN. You go to showdown way too much. There is no set number for that, but it should be in the 30s. Don't be so stubborn
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Old 04-11-2010, 05:24 PM   #56
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

There's no money in Rush. Everyone's solid.
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:22 PM   #57
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
There's no money in Rush. Everyone's solid.
Only way to improve Leroy is to post my adjusted stats and learn from them
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:04 AM   #58
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

i think im in need of a stats checkup. im trying figure out why 2/4 and 3/6 are causing me problems in the way 1/2 and 0.5/1 arent. theres more reg on reg action and in my experience ALOT more Checkraising at 2/4 and 3/6 and more lighter calldowns in said reg on reg action which i partake in selectively.

this is pretty much all playing 15-24 tables and is filtered for > 6 players at limits 0.5/1 to 3/6. theres a few things in there that im not totally happy with (eg W2SD) but feel free to point everything out anyway.

theres a crapload of reports in HEM so i just grabbed these. if theres any others i should do lemme know. ty.

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Old 04-12-2010, 01:31 AM   #59
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Red Line in LHE

I just got back into poker a few weeks ago and promised myself that I would be more analytical with my game.

One of the things I have spotted recently in HEM was the graph that showed winnings/showdown winnings/non showdown winnings. My graph looks pretty rough with the showdown winnings moving way up and the non showdown winnings dropping way down.

I started searching the forums and found the apparent epic thread of Fgators and I feel like the red line could be a leak in my game.

The question I have is does the red line mean the same in LHE as it does NL?
Is a negative red line that runs completely opposite of the blue line a leak? How many players have both lines that stay positive?

Some Quick stats for reference:
8k hands played at .50/1.00 and 1/2.00
VPIP 25.10
PFR 9.5
WTSD 38
W$SD% 56
BB/100 2.25
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Old 04-12-2010, 01:37 AM   #60
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Re: Red Line in LHE

Quote:
Is a negative red line that runs completely opposite of the blue line a leak?
nope not necessarily
Quote:
How many players have both lines that stay positive?
none imo.

for limit holdem you should basically ignore the red and the blue.

Quote:
8k hands played at .50/1.00 and 1/2.00
VPIP 25.10
PFR 9.5
WTSD 38
W$SD% 56
BB/100 2.25
also you PFR is too low and/or your vpip is too high assuming this is fullring
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Old 04-12-2010, 01:38 AM   #61
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Re: Red Line in LHE

The red line in LHE does not mean the same thing as it does in NL.

You should expect the red line to go down in limit. It is the nature of the game for it to be that way. You are going to showdown more often and it is more difficult to brute force take down pots postflop in limit (generally speaking -- this can be different if you know the kinds of players who you can run over) than it is in NL.

The red line going down in limit is not a leak.
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:56 AM   #62
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Searix,

Quote:
Originally Posted by prfsr_cain View Post
You seem to defend your sb too much.
And when you do defend, you don't 3! enough to my mind. Try filtering your DB to see the how you are doing when calling a raise, steal or otherwise, in the SB.

I've only got a few Rush hands on you so they may not be representative, but your flop AF/AFq was a lot lower than your turn figures and you were waiting for turn raises a lot. Often against villains who, I reckon, would have 3! a flop raise and led the turn for you. Again, filter and review.

As others have mentioned, WTSD is too high, CCPF is much better *if* you have good reasons to CC and not 3! the times you are still doing it.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:32 AM   #63
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Ozi:

Your c-bet stats seem low. I'm probably too high at ~97%, but I think you should be in the 92-95% range for the flop. Turn is maybe a touch low as well, IMO - I think it should be in the 70-75% range.

Biggest issue I see is that your ATS is really low across the board (CO/BTN/SB). I'm at ~30/37/57 and someone said I was too low in the CO/BTN. I'd really think about opening up your ranges there (maybe work up an ATS hand chart so you've got something concrete to work off of?)

I think your WTSD is marginally too high (I'm less familiar with what's normal for 10-handed tables). I'd work on getting it back down towards 37% like the lower limits.

I don't see your Blind Defense numbers, but you don't seem too out of line from a BB/100 results standpoint so ymmv. It does seem like you might be straddling the 3!/don't 3! line with your PF ranges from the BB. I'd expect something higher if you're going to 3! and lower if you were not (and were just 3! for value in non-steal situations). It's possible you're playing too polarized out of the BB and having ranges that are too easy to read. I'd also expect your SB 3! % to be a touch higher as well, but without SB defense numbers to compare, it's hard to say. I'm assuming you know to 3! any hands you're going to play from the SB vs. an ATS.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:16 AM   #64
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosh View Post
Sort of, though I don't want to look at the steals I 3 bet against, just the ones I flat call. I feel a bit like I'm folding too often to continuation bets on the flop but at the same time if I don't catch at least a small piece of the flop I can't see how I can continue without some very spewy lines.
c/r bluff dry flops vs CO, BTN, SB opens...they probably missed him too.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:55 AM   #65
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Ozi: I agree w/the ATS. Open more hands. One stat that I like to look at is RFI (raise first in).

Notice that as you move up levels, your VPIP goes down. I did the same thing when I moved up from 25c-50c. Then I started playing more hands. My winrate went up.

Other than that, variance?


And you removed your winnings, but not winrate. Basic math ftmfw!!
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:13 PM   #66
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

thanks for the feedback (but dont stop giving it just cos i replied ), i'll use it to take a look at a few things and run a few more specific queries etc when im not as tired as i am go.

but for now, as far as ATS goes remember im playing LOTs of tables and especially at 2/4 and 3/6 regs play back alot and tough HU spots suck when you have little time. im not using that as an excuse but i do sometimes feel like im bleeding in spots when i get played back at when i try and steal so if i tighten up a little i can avoid some of these spots.

before i posted my stats i was thinking that my opening ranges in steal spots was decent and is not the reason for my overall results.

as far as W2SD goes, yes i feel i pay off too much and its crept up as a result of 'i dont believe you have it' attitude i get with some regs who can do things like CR semibluff turns.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:32 PM   #67
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OziBattler View Post
thanks for the feedback (but dont stop giving it just cos i replied ), i'll use it to take a look at a few things and run a few more specific queries etc when im not as tired as i am go.

but for now, as far as ATS goes remember im playing LOTs of tables and especially at 2/4 and 3/6 regs play back alot and tough HU spots suck when you have little time. im not using that as an excuse but i do sometimes feel like im bleeding in spots when i get played back at when i try and steal so if i tighten up a little i can avoid some of these spots.

before i posted my stats i was thinking that my opening ranges in steal spots was decent and is not the reason for my overall results.

as far as W2SD goes, yes i feel i pay off too much and its crept up as a result of 'i dont believe you have it' attitude i get with some regs who can do things like CR semibluff turns.
Play fewer tables, IMO. I think somewhere in the 16-18 tabling range at a combo of 2/4 and 3/6 is SNE pace at 40 hours/week.

And WTSD creep is very real. Something I need to work on myself.
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Old 04-12-2010, 01:11 PM   #68
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Working on my game...
Still reading SSLH trying to apply it PF, probably have some decent leaks but I totally want to beat 0.1/0.25 within some months.



Comments ? bet more call less ?
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:54 PM   #69
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Tone down the aggression?

Also, is that 6-max or full ring?
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:05 PM   #70
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by JamesBJames View Post
Tone down the aggression?

Also, is that 6-max or full ring?
yeah, been working on betting less on the big streets actually.. weirdly i don't raise enough PF but too much later.

and that's a mix of 6m+fr so maybe not meaningful at all ?

This is just 0.1/0.25 FR :

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Old 04-12-2010, 07:11 PM   #71
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
Play fewer tables, IMO. I think somewhere in the 16-18 tabling range at a combo of 2/4 and 3/6 is SNE pace at 40 hours/week.

And WTSD creep is very real. Something I need to work on myself.
fwiw i have only been doing about 16-18 tables this month anyway .....even if i wanted to 24 about half those are 1/2 simply because there isnt enough at 2/4+

Last edited by OziBattler; 04-12-2010 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:31 PM   #72
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
Play fewer tables, IMO.
Blasphemy!!
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:29 AM   #73
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

I hope this is suitable as a stats question, and for the record this is not a disguised bad beat post. If i play 1000 hands in a night, it it normal to run into 2-3 occurances of overpair over overpair (AA vs. KK, QQ vs. KK) in that many hands, or am I currently on the wrong side of variance? This is 10 handed fullring fwiw.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:42 AM   #74
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

You get KK ~0.5% of the time, and then, against 9 opponents, there is ~4% chance someone's holding AA. So you're just running bad!

But you know what, there are so many unlikely things that can happen, so that one of them actually do is very likely!

:-)
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:56 PM   #75
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

I am trying to stay positive ,thinking this is a bad run of things.The first 40k hands at .25/.50 I was at 1.5BB/100,then I started paying for the crimes of a past life or something.I review every session and the 2 things I'm seeing are 1)not really getting many playables from any position and 2)I need to work on 3! from the blinds more,feels like I'm calling from BB and c/f a lot.I'm also still trying to open more hands,its a process.In 4+ player pots,in late position Ive just been calling smaller pairs,should 3bet these also against that many opponents?

All feedback is appreciated!



This sample is only 4 days of play,I still have hopes to recoup this week.

Last edited by ontiltagain; 04-13-2010 at 02:04 PM.
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