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OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

02-09-2011 , 12:40 PM
No is in the mood to review my stats. I got another 5k more that a look kind of similar, with a few differences if you're really interested.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-09-2011 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadl3r
No is in the mood to review my stats. I got another 5k more that a look kind of similar, with a few differences if you're really interested.
the way you have presented your stats over 5 different screen shots makes it harder for me to get a feel for what you're doing. i have about 200k hands between .50/1 and 1/2 in the last 6 months or so at a small, but positive winrate.

i don't have any suggestions, but i do have some comments. your aggression seems absurdly high to me. your wtsd seems absurdly low. and stealing 46% on the CO is really intense. want to sweat?
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-09-2011 , 01:40 PM
here's my stats for FR on stars so far this year.

OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 01:53 AM
Hello everyone. Here are my first 10K hands since getting back into playing.

I was not sure how the best way to export the details page was. PT3 only let me export it as a CSV file. I opened it with excel, converted it to pdf, then again to jpg. I'm sure there has got to be an easier way.





Thanks!
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 07:32 AM
Granimal, there is a 10% gap between your pfr/call in the blinds and as a result you are losing too much money in the blinds compare to what your making in other positions
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 07:39 AM



/wrists.

Help?
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conztant
Help?
Play at least 10k hands so the sample size is reasonable. Use BB and not $, especially if you play multiple levels. Post screenshots showing your stats by position -- see other posts in the thread for examples, like this one, but without the tooltip covering things up. You should also read the first post in this thread.

But obvious things from what you did post -- steal more, tone down the post-flop aggression, and don't go to showdown so often.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 08:18 AM
too small a sample size and can easily be variance, but your WTSD sees a bit high
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightowl89
too small a sample size and can easily be variance, but your WTSD sees a bit high
False. His WTSD is well within reason. 33-39 is pretty normal.

Things that you need to really look at though:

Fold to flop c-bet too often. Try peeling a few more flops.

Fold BB to steal WAY to much: Try to get around 50 right now, but aim for 35 in the end.

ATS is amazingly low: look to get around 35/45/55 from CO/BTN/SB

That should be good for now. I'm sure when you get 10k more hands we will find other things, but these are big things hat will effect your win-rate a ton.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Schupick
False. His WTSD is well within reason. 33-39 is pretty normal.

Things that you need to really look at though:

Fold to flop c-bet too often. Try peeling a few more flops.

Fold BB to steal WAY to much: Try to get around 50 right now, but aim for 35 in the end.

ATS is amazingly low: look to get around 35/45/55 from CO/BTN/SB

That should be good for now. I'm sure when you get 10k more hands we will find other things, but these are big things hat will effect your win-rate a ton.
No fair. Do mine pls.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Schupick
False. His WTSD is well within reason. 33-39 is pretty normal.
In isolation, maybe. But, in conjunction with a <50% W$SD, it's a little high.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigelSmith
In isolation, maybe. But, in conjunction with a <50% W$SD, it's a little high.
Small sample = unreliable W$SD. I'm not even going to look a that number until 30k hands, to be honest. Maybe 20k.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadl3r
No fair. Do mine pls.
Okay, so if you are going to be playing this style, i think you need to increase your WTSD a bit. Maybe more around 35% especially at 3/6. People are going to be raising you higher, and such. Also, i do wonder if you need to cool your ATS down some, because you aren't going to be getting the folds that you get, even at 2/4. I think this style is good for lower stakes, but I don't know how much I like it at 3/6-5/T where you have a lot of grinders who are playing a more snug style. you may say they are nits, so you can take from them, and while true to a point, you aren't going to get as many incorrect folds, which I think your style is heavily based on. So i think cutting down the steal in the CO might be your best move, but also playing a lot more shorthanded to get used to playing in the blinds would also be good.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Schupick
Okay, so if you are going to be playing this style, i think you need to increase your WTSD a bit. Maybe more around 35% especially at 3/6. People are going to be raising you higher, and such. Also, i do wonder if you need to cool your ATS down some, because you aren't going to be getting the folds that you get, even at 2/4. I think this style is good for lower stakes, but I don't know how much I like it at 3/6-5/T where you have a lot of grinders who are playing a more snug style. you may say they are nits, so you can take from them, and while true to a point, you aren't going to get as many incorrect folds, which I think your style is heavily based on. So i think cutting down the steal in the CO might be your best move, but also playing a lot more shorthanded to get used to playing in the blinds would also be good.
Thx and intereesting. Doesn't it make sense that my went to showdown is really low since I find myself in very marginal spots and just can't make it there. Also, with my seat selection I do have 11/10 kind of nits to my left that don't defend much. Vpips in 3/6 and above hover around mid twenties to thirty a lot, so I wouldn't say they all play a snug style, those loose ones I keep on my right.

Playing 6max and HU is a good idea. Once I get 500 Ftpoints a day I've been focusing on those games some.

Last edited by Sadl3r; 02-10-2011 at 02:21 PM.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightowl89
Granimal, there is a 10% gap between your pfr/call in the blinds and as a result you are losing too much money in the blinds compare to what your making in other positions
Thanks man. I really want to work on my blind play.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadl3r
Thx and intereesting. Doesn't it make sense that my went to showdown is really low since I find myself in very marginal spots and just can't make it there.
1. with your aggression (high VPIP, high steal, high 3bet, high postflop agg.), observant opponents will be playing back at you with a wider range. thus, your marginal spots will have slightly more equity than they would against "normal" ranges.

2. with your aggression (high VPIP, high steal, high 3bet, high postflop agg.) and people playing back at you more, the pots will be much larger, on average. thus, you will need less and less equity to justify the calldowns.

the combination of the two will lead to higher WTSD, not lower.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-10-2011 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by normalcy
1. with your aggression (high VPIP, high steal, high 3bet, high postflop agg.), observant opponents will be playing back at you with a wider range. thus, your marginal spots will have slightly more equity than they would against "normal" ranges.

2. with your aggression (high VPIP, high steal, high 3bet, high postflop agg.) and people playing back at you more, the pots will be much larger, on average. thus, you will need less and less equity to justify the calldowns.

the combination of the two will lead to higher WTSD, not lower.
What would you say if I said that I like to play at tables where my opponents are not observant? They don't make adjustments, or if they do, it's misplaced aggression.

Full Tilt - $1/$2 - Holdem - 8 players
[i]Hand converted by PokerTracker 3[/i

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has 2 Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.00, SB raises to $3.00, fold, Hero calls $1.00

Flop: ($7.00, 2 players) Q 8 Q
SB bets $1.00, Hero raises to $2.00, SB raises to $3.00, Hero raises to $4.00, SB calls $1.00

Turn: ($15.00, 2 players) 2
SB bets $2.00, Hero raises to $4.00, SB raises to $6.00, Hero raises to $8.00, SB calls $2.00

River: ($31.00, 2 players) 8
SB checks, Hero bets $2.00, SB calls $2.00

Hero shows 2 Q (Full House, Queens full of Eights) (PreFlop 34%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%)
SB mucks J A (Two Pair, Queens and Eights) (PreFlop 66%, Flop 3%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins $34.00

Last edited by Sadl3r; 02-10-2011 at 06:51 PM.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-11-2011 , 12:06 AM
My appologies for not having 10k hands, will repost when I have played 10k+
despite this fact I really appreciate any advice I can get. The big downswing really blew my confidence (I am a reletively new player). I've started playing less agressive and have been giving people more credit for the hands they have. I still have a little trouble letting go of my KK when there is an Ace of the board. I say to myself "he has an ace, he is playing his ace....why are you calling? no-no don't! no don't, stop.....there goes your money" :P. I really do appreciate the help. Looking forward to my Small Stakes Hold'em turning up in the post .

Cheers
Conztant.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-11-2011 , 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadl3r
What would you say if I said that I like to play at tables where my opponents are not observant? They don't make adjustments, or if they do, it's misplaced aggression.

Full Tilt - $1/$2 - Holdem - 8 players
[i]Hand converted by PokerTracker 3[/i

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has 2 Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.00, SB raises to $3.00, fold, Hero calls $1.00

Flop: ($7.00, 2 players) Q 8 Q
SB bets $1.00, Hero raises to $2.00, SB raises to $3.00, Hero raises to $4.00, SB calls $1.00

Turn: ($15.00, 2 players) 2
SB bets $2.00, Hero raises to $4.00, SB raises to $6.00, Hero raises to $8.00, SB calls $2.00

River: ($31.00, 2 players) 8
SB checks, Hero bets $2.00, SB calls $2.00

Hero shows 2 Q (Full House, Queens full of Eights) (PreFlop 34%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%)
SB mucks J A (Two Pair, Queens and Eights) (PreFlop 66%, Flop 3%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins $34.00
how does this hand demonstrate your point that your WTSD should be microscopic?? it helps to demonstrate my point, which is that your opponents are going to be playing back at you light. therefore, you need to call down light.

Last edited by normalcy; 02-11-2011 at 02:08 AM.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-11-2011 , 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Schupick
Small sample = unreliable W$SD. I'm not even going to look a that number until 30k hands, to be honest. Maybe 20k.
OK, so WinIE ate my reply to this last night -- more tilting than a rivered two-outer, there was maths in it and everything!

I think you're overly pessimistic -- I agree it's nowhere near converged yet , but Borer & Mak reckon W$SD becomes "meaningful" after 1000 hands. That's 6-max, and I still can't decide whether OP's stats are 6 or FR (never mind what stakes!), but if it is FR then the lower saw-flop should mean less variance and faster convergence.

That said, it's still too early to tell for W$SD alone. Using the other stats as well I think it is the *way* the OP is seeing showdown. After all, he's only winning 53% of the time he bets or raises on the river and, combined with the rather high AF/AFq on the Flop and Turn, I would guess that OP is betting villain's hands for them.

Given that, I think it's a bad move to be stealing and defending more. OP needs to sort out his post-flop play first before opening up.

Conztant -- read the FAQ, trawl the Library, grunch some strat posts, and see you back here in 10k.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-11-2011 , 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by normalcy
how does this hand demonstrate your point that your WTSD should be microscopic?? it helps to demonstrate my point, which is that your opponents are going to be playing back at you light. therefore, you need to call down light.
Ya I noticed the small WTSD when I posted this, thanks for pointing it out. I'll look into this a bit more too because my next 10K hands had similar WTSD. Oddly my Won at showdown isn't extremely high or anything it's just 52%- you'd expect it to be really high like over 55% or something right?
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-11-2011 , 07:36 PM
Any other comments on my stats...

*crickets*
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-11-2011 , 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Granimal
Any other comments on my stats...

*crickets*
Sorry it's a little long but I tried to give you my best and it might have some typos.

If you are concerned because you are losing...it's important that you not focus on short term results. 10k hands is very short term and hard to draw a solid conclusion to what is going on. 50-100k hands is just starting to get into the long term results. You'll have a much better view of exactly what's going on when you hit 20-30k hands.

I like your VP$IP distribution because it's a lot like mine but try to loosen up just a little bit. I think it would be best if you bumped up to ~17-19% VP$IP. From what I can see you basically never cold call. I certainly agree with the idea that if you are going to enter a pot you want to be raising, especially if you are the first in the pot. But, not calling raiser in front of you is definitely a mistake. And always reraising when you enter a pot is also a mistake. Don't be afraid to cold call or limp with semi marginal or marginal hands. You don't have to be the raiser every time. Take a flop with almost all your pairs. 8s or better up front sometimes raising or limping with 88 or 99 but also limping with them. In the middle I'd limp call or raise with almost any pair depending on action in front of me and the players left to act. And almost every pair in late position is worth a calling or raising especially if no one has entered the pot in front of you. I'm not sure how you view suited connectors and A-x suited but they play very much the same and very well in multiway pots so maybe these are some hands you aren't calling enough with. In late position these hands can become raising hands if no one else has entered. They have decent stealing power. You don't get committed to them when you miss and the preflop aggression shows strength often winning the pot with c-bets.

You are very aggressive like me which I like but your river aggression seems low compared to your flop and turn aggression.

I think your win money at showdown % is too low but to be honest I don't know much about what this number should be or how to change it. I feel like this should be around 55% +/- 3%.

It sounds like your blind play is your biggest leak at the moment. Your fold SB to steal is about spot but you are folding the BB to steal WAY TO MUCH!!!! If I can remember correctly this number should be around 50-55%. Your attempt to steal % is pretty good maybe try stealing a little more but you may also want to look at how much you are stealing from the CO BTN and SB then make an adjustment based on that. Everyone is going to lose money in the blinds but when we are there you need to focus on losing the least. I saw that you said you want to work on your blind play. Take a look at what Barry Tanenbaum has to say about playing from the blinds. I swear by this guy!! He's a top pro limit hold'em player and his articles are priceless. Here is a link to the page with his limit hold'em blind play there are 6 parts on how to improve from the blinds.

http://www.cardplayer.com/authors/12...nenbaum?page=7

Last edited by Lilwoody; 02-11-2011 at 10:01 PM.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-11-2011 , 10:45 PM
I just hit 100k hands. The last ~20k haven't been very profitable but overall I feel like my performance is great. All played at the .25/.50 limit hold'em tables on PokerStars. I included a lot of screen shots. Always looking to find leaks and improve my game. Let me know what you think! Thanks!!!

Player Summary/Statistics


Details


Position


Monthly Winnings with approximate multi-table ratio.


Graph
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote
02-11-2011 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilwoody
Sorry it's a little long but I tried to give you my best and it might have some typos.

If you are concerned because you are losing...it's important that you not focus on short term results. 10k hands is very short term and hard to draw a solid conclusion to what is going on. 50-100k hands is just starting to get into the long term results. You'll have a much better view of exactly what's going on when you hit 20-30k hands.

I like your VP$IP distribution because it's a lot like mine but try to loosen up just a little bit. I think it would be best if you bumped up to ~17-19% VP$IP. From what I can see you basically never cold call. I certainly agree with the idea that if you are going to enter a pot you want to be raising, especially if you are the first in the pot. But, not calling raiser in front of you is definitely a mistake. And always reraising when you enter a pot is also a mistake. Don't be afraid to cold call or limp with semi marginal or marginal hands. You don't have to be the raiser every time. Take a flop with almost all your pairs. 8s or better up front sometimes raising or limping with 88 or 99 but also limping with them. In the middle I'd limp call or raise with almost any pair depending on action in front of me and the players left to act. And almost every pair in late position is worth a calling or raising especially if no one has entered the pot in front of you. I'm not sure how you view suited connectors and A-x suited but they play very much the same and very well in multiway pots so maybe these are some hands you aren't calling enough with. In late position these hands can become raising hands if no one else has entered. They have decent stealing power. You don't get committed to them when you miss and the preflop aggression shows strength often winning the pot with c-bets.

You are very aggressive like me which I like but your river aggression seems low compared to your flop and turn aggression.

I think your win money at showdown % is too low but to be honest I don't know much about what this number should be or how to change it. I feel like this should be around 55% +/- 3%.

It sounds like your blind play is your biggest leak at the moment. Your fold SB to steal is about spot but you are folding the BB to steal WAY TO MUCH!!!! If I can remember correctly this number should be around 50-55%. Your attempt to steal % is pretty good maybe try stealing a little more but you may also want to look at how much you are stealing from the CO BTN and SB then make an adjustment based on that. Everyone is going to lose money in the blinds but when we are there you need to focus on losing the least. I saw that you said you want to work on your blind play. Take a look at what Barry Tanenbaum has to say about playing from the blinds. I swear by this guy!! He's a top pro limit hold'em player and his articles are priceless. Here is a link to the page with his limit hold'em blind play there are 6 parts on how to improve from the blinds.

http://www.cardplayer.com/authors/12...nenbaum?page=7
There is a lot wrong with this advice... just see my normal responses to people.
OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2) Quote

      
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