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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 04-08-2010, 09:42 AM   #26
Leroy2DaBeroy
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by fireflyreborn View Post
i know this is 9handed but even so your preflop range seems really tight to me, at least compared to what i have seen in videos
Possibly... It's at least partially a construct of the things I'm currently working on. I under-defend my BB and to a lesser extent, my SB. And I need to add a few pips to my CO and BTN steal ranges. You'll notice I also am a don't 3! out of the BB facing a steal proponent which would further increase my PFR. I'm not sure where it will put my overall VPIP/PFR when I get these things where I want them, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 18.5/13.5 would be my guess. Higher PFR if I 3! from the BB, LDO.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:30 AM   #27
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

So, nobody has anything to say about my stats? Personally I think only Fold BB to Steal may be to high. May be a result of the passive games I played in though...
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:40 AM   #28
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
I'm working on it. I'm surprised you didn't mention my 50+% FBBtS... (I'm working on that too.)
I don't mind that as much at low limit FR although 40-45 is probably better. FWIW my btn steal in 19k hands of RUSH is 61%. It's entirely possible I'm not good enough to be stealing that high, but you should be at least 50%, probably closer to 60.

Last edited by shuinthehouse; 04-08-2010 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:41 AM   #29
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by dragon1893 View Post
So, nobody has anything to say about my stats? Personally I think only Fold BB to Steal may be to high. May be a result of the passive games I played in though...
Flop c-bet seems low. Are you getting cold-called a lot or ending up in multi-way pots somehow?

Other than that, only issue I see is that your steaks are too low.

(I think FBBtS is probably fine for these limits, but you could lower it a bit 1-2 limits higher.)
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:09 AM   #30
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by dragon1893 View Post
So, nobody has anything to say about my stats? Personally I think only Fold BB to Steal may be to high. May be a result of the passive games I played in though...
as you noted 3! is too low from CO and btn and should obviously be trending up, not flat. FWIW Oink posted guidelines at some point which I kept in a poker notes s/s, they were

HJ 8-9%, CO 12-13%, OTB 18%.

You should be stealing at least 50% otb, 46% is too low for your skill at these levels.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:14 AM   #31
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
Flop c-bet seems low. Are you getting cold-called a lot or ending up in multi-way pots somehow?
I know many people like to cbet 100%. But I disagree with the concept. I won't cbet certain flop textures if it hit my opponents ranges a lot and/or if i have little fold equity on the flop.

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Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
Other than that, only issue I see is that your steaks are too low.
Meh

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Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post

(I think FBBtS is probably fine for these limits, but you could lower it a bit 1-2 limits higher.)
It's normally way lower I think. Was surprised by the numbers.

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Originally Posted by shuinthehouse View Post
as you noted 3! is too low from CO and btn and should obviously be trending up, not flat. FWIW Oink posted guidelines at some point which I kept in a poker notes s/s, they were

HJ 8-9%, CO 12-13%, OTB 18%.
I think the sample size is a bit biased here since I normally played in loose passive games and sample size too small. I don't think there are enough spots to 3! at the stakes I played. I played generally in loose passive games with hardcore game selection. Hard to 3bet a limper.

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Originally Posted by shuinthehouse View Post
You should be stealing at least 50% otb, 46% is too low for your skill at these levels.
Maybe something I should review. People around here are normally on the nitty side. I remember getting called out for opening T8o in CO and K4 OTB. Maybe I should add them to my ranges again.

Last edited by dragon1893; 04-08-2010 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:18 AM   #32
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by dragon1893 View Post
I know many people like to cbet 100%. But I disagree with the concept. I won't cbet certain flop textures if it hit my opponents ranges a lot and/or if i have little fold equity on the flop.
You don't have to get to 100% (you'll notice I'm only at a touch over 97%), and perhaps it's different at 6M or at these limits, but I'm oftentimes surprised when my c-bet takes it down on a drawy or middling flop or whatever. I think positionally, it can also buy you a lot of free cards.

I'm curious as your turn c-bet %.

Edit: Try a filter for times you c-bet the flop when you didn't have a pair and see what you get.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:30 AM   #33
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
I'm curious as your turn c-bet %.

Edit: Try a filter for times you c-bet the flop when you didn't have a pair and see what you get.
I like to induce quite a lot at these stakes. I remember Party having many retards that would take a stab liberally if you checked to them. If you only wanted 1 bet to go in on turn and river, you could just check to them and let them do your job.

There was one thread last month where I argued with Boz about it. He said you need a read to make that play. Well, I can develop reads quickly.


And those stats are from december-january.

If i look at my stats this month at 6max, I'm playing 32/24. I think HUHU experience is helping me to lag it up even more.

Last edited by dragon1893; 04-08-2010 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:26 PM   #34
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by shuinthehouse View Post
as you noted 3! is too low from CO and btn and should obviously be trending up, not flat. FWIW Oink posted guidelines at some point which I kept in a poker notes s/s, they were

a. HJ 8-9%, CO 12-13%, OTB 18%.

b. You should be stealing at least 50% otb, 46% is too low for your skill at these levels.
a. +1
b. i'd be REALLY surprised if it gets folded around to reach 50% atts OTB.....even in the micros

c. samplesizeaments! @ dragon
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:10 PM   #35
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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b. i'd be REALLY surprised if it gets folded around to reach 50% atts OTB.....even in the micros
wat? atts % is based on opportunities to steal, it's only an opportunity if it gets folded around
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:02 PM   #36
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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wat? atts % is based on opportunities to steal, it's only an opportunity if it gets folded around
obv i'm not paying attention
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:55 AM   #37
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

at .25-.50 and .5-1., i don't think a flop cbet percentage over 90 percent can be optimally profitable. There will be a lot of multi-way peels and you're just donating to a pot in which you don't fair well equity wise.

Also, at .25-.50, it's hard to get your 3-betting percentage in the 10-12% range because of so many limped pots.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:20 AM   #38
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)



Small sample .25/50 fr

running hot i know

Last edited by 1peterdragon; 04-09-2010 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:25 AM   #39
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

1Pdragon, what's ur hourly at FR? I think i'm about to make the conversion.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:26 AM   #40
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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1Pdragon, what's ur hourly at FR? I think i'm about to make the conversion.
I'm not sure. Not worth it imo

STAY AWAY PLSE
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:33 AM   #41
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

it's gotta be over 10/hr b/c you're always up high on the PTR's "top winner list" for our stakes.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:34 AM   #42
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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it's gotta be over 10/hr b/c you're always up high on the PTR's "top winner list" for our stakes.
i put in around 85-100 hrs a month
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:42 AM   #43
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Distajo View Post
Also, at .25-.50, it's hard to get your 3-betting percentage in the 10-12% range because of so many limped pots.
As with ATS, your 3!% is based on your opportunities to 3!, so this doesn't make any difference.

Passive villains will lower your 3!% though -- if your average villain only raises his top 5% your 3! range will tighten up as well. I think we see a similar trend with FBBtS -- when most "steals" are actually value raises we have to defend less.

I think Dragon's ATS% suffers from the opposite. When the blinds are loose and more likely to call we should probably back off the stealing a bit and look for value raises instead.
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:01 AM   #44
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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1Pdragon, what's ur hourly at FR? I think i'm about to make the conversion.
yesterday i played 400 hands of huhu, 150 of 6max. I just couldn't find a profitable fr game, otherwise i would also play it.

do you see where i'm getting at?
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:54 AM   #45
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

I think I got some of my issues resolved, but apparently I still have opened up enough.I'm really trying to get to about 19/13ish but I'm just a nit at heart.As aside note,it seemed I ran pretty poor over these last 2 days.

Like always your feedback is appreciated
[IMG][/IMG]

If I didn't fold the small pairs in early position,and folding KQo to a early raiser....I think that would get me closer to my goal of 19/13.But I think both spots are leaky if I add them in,any thoughts wise peoples.

Last edited by ontiltagain; 04-09-2010 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 04-09-2010, 10:02 AM   #46
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Cut back the cold-calling. 3! more, instead. ATS is low. Look for steal opportunities in the SB - you can easily get above 50% for SB ATS. Major thing (IMO) is to open up your PFR range in EP. I think you can pretty easily get to 8-10%. Basically, take your UTG+2 range and slide it over to UTG (minus maybe a couple hands).

Probably move up if your BR is good for it (maybe after working a few k hands on these things?)
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Old 04-09-2010, 10:16 AM   #47
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

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Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy View Post
Cut back the cold-calling. 3! more, instead. ATS is low. Look for steal opportunities in the SB - you can easily get above 50% for SB ATS. Major thing (IMO) is to open up your PFR range in EP. I think you can pretty easily get to 8-10%. Basically, take your UTG+2 range and slide it over to UTG (minus maybe a couple hands).

Probably move up if your BR is good for it (maybe after working a few k hands on these things?)
Thanks for the help Leroy,I'll fiddle with those ideas the next couple days.Im already rolled for a step up,but I wont move up till the fine tuning is done.I assume each step up will be tougher(could bring more variance)so I was thinking 700 big bets would be good for .50/1.I been playing 4k-7k hands a day,it might be hurting my focus a little as well.

ontiltagain
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:42 PM   #48
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Is there a way of seeing how often you check-fold to a flop bet after defending your bb heads up?
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:31 PM   #49
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Tosh, I'm curious if this answers your question. In PokerTracker, Filter by:
General: Hands with 2 players seeing the flop
Facing: Preflop: Facing Steal in BB: pick 3 Bet + Called
Actions: Flop: Check + Fold
Actions: Flop: Continuation Bet OPP

Is that what your looking at?
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Old 04-10-2010, 04:53 AM   #50
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Re: OFFICIAL MicroStakesLIMIT stats thread (part 2)

Sort of, though I don't want to look at the steals I 3 bet against, just the ones I flat call. I feel a bit like I'm folding too often to continuation bets on the flop but at the same time if I don't catch at least a small piece of the flop I can't see how I can continue without some very spewy lines.
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