Time for my monthly humiliation. Been working on lowering VPIP, raising preflop, 3! more, more aggression overall, etc. I've noticed Cbetting has dropped a lot, not sure why at the moment. Any thoughts, help?

You're not stealing anywhere close to enough. Start with 25 CO, 35 BTN, and 45 SB (these are still low, but a good starting point, IMO).

You're also not defending your BB enough, but that could be because ATS opens are srs biz and wide-ranged steals. Not sure what limit this is...

I think you're also going to SD a bit much and given your WTSD, running pretty well. Ymmv.

I'll work on stealing and BB defense, I tend to miss opportunities a lot I find. I should put up some hand ranges at the desk, that's helped in other areas start getting the patterns okay.

It .1/.2 on stars. I was hoping to move up to .25/.5 since I'm running well overall, just not happening next week like I hoped it seems.

Thank you!

These are al hands from this month, im loosing BB from UTG, am i playing too tight from that position?,

This...


Has led me to post this...


...prematurely I know, but would like to see if anything jumps out. The stats from upswing are fairly in line with downswing (can post if needed) so asides from variance right now I got nothing.

I don't play a ton of 6Max so take it FWIW...

You're too nitty for 6M. Raise more PF! And probably a good chunk of it is going to be 3! more. Stop open-limping and stop cold-calling so much, particularly being the first to do so and stop over-limping as #2 in. You're also probably not stealing enough and you're not defending your BB enough (although at this limit, it may be okay).

Gotcha on all counts.

... I just feel like I am PFring too much is all sometimes, though I am probably not plus in cross referencing personally the up vs down, my SB play is jacked up for some reason and the differences in my AFq between all streets after the flop is quite different. It goes up in frequency when I am making money and down when I am losing???

Im jumping into a session now to see what happens

(played 52 hands, got bored but I was up 1.10 BB... think just gonna take the weekend off)

22/17 is incredibly nitty for 6-max. You might want to use this chart to get to a more acceptable 26/18 before modifying your game somewhat.

Stop open-limping so much. Stop cold-calling so much. Attempt to steal a little more from the CO and the BTN, and attempt to steal a lot more out of the SB. Defend your BB a little more. Defend your SB a lot less.

Oh, and 3-bet more often.

Thanks, I am definitely going to study this like a ****ing champ. Basically I was playing 6 max blind meaning no info on starting hands...just dialing up the aggression and learning as I went. I planned on getting to 10k hands and then evaluating where I was but knowing I had such a high W$SD rate I assumed I was bound to crash, which I did...just sucks that it happened so fast and furious.

I skimmed through this thread looking for stat expectations on 6max but couldnt find any baselines so if anyone can point me that way Ill gladly appreciate it.

In looking on my stats I was folding a decent amount of hands I should not have from early position, and CC with hands I should have def 3 bet not thinning the field or calling with a hand I wanted to to go multi way with. (thats what she said) I also was very much over defending from the SB and under defending my BB. The amount of money I spewed from the SB during the swing opened my eyes a lot, I knew I should not be losing more in the SB than the BB.

I think 6max fits my style more now that I play it, I like to play more hands and be involved and be more aggressive which is always why I hate the anti-christ that is known as NL.

Thanks again for all the help, and for dealing with all my nonsense

Three months ago I reopened my old Stars account and started digging into 2+2. Two weeks after that I decided to start taking it Very Seriously, and got tracking/HUD software (Poker CoPilot, because lolMac), tried out a few limits and settled on .5/1. I didn't want to commit to a lot of hours right away, so my goal was to have 10k hands as a winner by the end of June.

Goal met, more or less. First 10k hands, all FR .5/1 PS:




I know not to focus on stats as ends in themselves, but I've been drifting down from 19/14 for the last few weeks. And I can't tell if this is cause or effect:




There's not enough sample to say, I know, but are there any basic leaks I should watch out for here? or any weak, typical downswing behavior? I avoid tilt pretty well; and, after that middle 4000 OMG hands, I was preparing myself for the inevitable downswing. But I don't want to rationalize away leaks while I'm on a swong; I'd rather take care of those sooner than later.

quick sanity check since ive changed up and played 6max this month. ive felt like ive played alright and nothing too spewy.

should one consider these swings and specifically swongs entirely standard? im talking about the relative size and quickness of the plunges and how many there are.

im at like 25/17/1.8 with WTSD of 38 and WSD of 54 over 16k hands. i dont consider myself to be passive but apparently ive got a touch of relatively passivity and a dab of calling station....i still havent entirely figured out how the winners with AF of like 2.5+ are doing it since they all seem to get to SD a fair bit...hmmmm (im just pondering at this point, maybe i'll post some more thorough stats later)

You're folding waaaaaay to much.

Edit: OK, maybe not 6 "a" way, but you're folding too much. And I would imagine that - especially at 1/2 - the regs have noticed and are taking advantage of it.

cheers Jaran. got any decent posts/threads on 'folding too much'? I mean, its easy to say that im folding too much but finding spots when you should 3bet the turn as a total bluff to a CR or call down with **** all has been pretty hard for me to do. See, its something ive thought myself but im not sure how much lighter i can call down or fling poo when i have air? im stuck in a land where i can value bet light which kind of conflicts with actually getting villians to fold if they have anything........yes, im doing **** like calling down with Ace and sometimes K high and any pair.

those damn regs always seem to have something when i get them to SD.

i realise im talking general stuff here and posting hands might be the way to go as it often depends....i havent got the 'it depends' part figured out at 1/2+ apparently.

im gunna check out that link Leroy posted above btw. my problems are mostly postflop i think though.

i think i'll stop rambling now

I don't have any specific threads, but I suggest you search SSSHE for threads by Oink and GiantBuddha. Both have excellent analysis on marginal postflop positions. Also, as you noted, posting some specific hands would be useful. A lot comes down to hand reading and flop texture (which I'm sure you know). I know that SSSHE also has a monthly session review that would be valuable to you.

you're tight...like really tight. a 25vpip is so lol for 6m these days.
25/18 might have worked 3 years ago when everyone sucked...not so much anymore.
people i see with those stats tend to bleed BB's slowly without any game selection. 25/18 is not that bad but you're probably missing out on some +EV situations by playing that tight.

fwiw, ptr has me at 34/25/1.8 and i'm still working on loosening my range.

edit: with stats like that, you probably under vpip/defend from the blinds. just my assumption without you posting positional stats breakdown.

edit2: also, if you want a more thorough review of your stats, you should post your recent 6m position based stats filtered for 5-6 handed in the SSSH stats thread. that thread is solid gold imo.

Yes, apparently (read the first few replies).

I agree you're a little on the tight side but you should still be good enough to beat 1/2, regardless of your exact stats. If anything your 38% WTSD seems too low for your preflop stats. I mean, the tighter you are preflop the stronger your hands should be postflop and the more you should see showdowns, or am I mistaken?

And I thought my stats of 24/15/51 with a WTSD 35 was almost too loose, tonight I dig into the pf range post linked earlier and start getting down to some studying business.

fwiw, this is just my opinion and i make no claim that what i say is completely factual...
at micros, say... .25/.50 and below, you can be a winner playing that style because the games are full of poor players.

at 1/2, using that style might be passing up on a lot of situations where it would be profitable to vpip higher. however, one shouldn't just aim to start playing 30/20+ cold turkey or something.. you know?

and switching to a more loose style pre-flop does not equate to more winnings post-flop. if you start playing 30/20 pre, and then fit/fold it up post, you are just asking to be punished. if you play 30/20 pre, and then start going ape **** post-flop, you're also asking to be punished.

playing more hands means you potentially place yourself in more marginal situations...so...play on/after the flop is just as, if not more, important than pre.

if you want a good example of a nit gone lag, look at merry. early on @2p2, she was a rock that eeked out a better than BE win rate over a large sample. look for some of her posts in the stats thread (micros stats thread v1.0 and SSSH stats thread). then look at the responses to her posts. she crushes poker btw.

FWIW your opinions generally do not suck so saying its just your opinion is good enough for most people on this forum IMO

Part of the reason I decided to play 10k hands and see where I stood was so that i could cross reference my instinctual play with what are considered profitable play. Not sure if its good or pay yet to be honest.

Now I have lots of work to do to get to where I need to be so I can improve and move up, also seeing the downswings expected in 6max based on other stats/statements other people have recently posted have helped me realize its to be expected and will help with the tilt (I hope)

great discussion however if you cant beat 1/2 and 2/4 playing like 25/18 with good postflop play then are the games even worth playing?

im pretty sure that i'd fall into the zone of 'brutal punishment' if i open up much more...and that, i do not want.

How many tables are you playing Ozi? When i as 8 tabling i was still close to 28/21. So 25/18 seems very tight. I have no experience at 2/4, but at 1/2 there are already a lot of grinding regs, but only a few are solid winners. But even fish are starting to be more agressive, it's just a matter of readjusting.

ive been doing anywhere from 6-12 depending on game selection. i game select pretty hard and if i dont have a fish or two at the table im outta there. ive been trying to make sure i maintain SN status and if i only played 6 tables im not going to be able to do that at 1/2. ive been having trouble getting in the volume and am seriously considering not continuing maintaining 7.5k for SN if things continue to go poorly at whatever game im playing. reprioritisation ftw.

im reluctant to open up too much further tbh because every time i try and open up (either at FR or 6max) i just seem to get smashed...i dont think i play fit or fold per say but im not going to SD with T high

Playing so many tables is tough. There are few sucessfull MMT regs at 1/2, most of them are rakeback grinders. I can only think of one that is really though.

I don't think preflop is where the problem is. Most likely you'll have to make adjustments on WTSD and agression postflop. I agree with Jaran, WTSD of 38 with 25/17 stats seems very low.

When was the last time you had someone review one of your 6-max sessions? You should approach some players who you know and trust. If you want i will gladly do it (1/2), but by no means im the better man for it. I do believe you could benefit from a fresh perspective.

thanks for the offer Elpe. I just might take you up on it.

as far as my nitty 6max stats. those are for when im MMTing 6max this month where i basically took a break from Full Ring and wanted to see what i could do at 6max as well as work my shorthanded game and thereby improve my FR game and its been valuable at ramping up the aggro. i also wanted to make sure i maintained SN so i played a few more tables than i would ideally but i persisted with it to get enough hands in to get a feel for whether i'd be able to say play 9 tables of 6max profitably and hit SN monthly goal.......why say this? well when i play less tables my stats just so happen to go up BECAUSE im able to play more confidently as a result of better reads but its probably a fair reflection that 25/17 is my default conservative game that i play when im a push-a-button-monkey. eg 500 hand session today...and sample sizeaments yeah i was 38/29 preflop and more aggro post with a higher W2SD.

i think you guys are right though even though ive kind of found out that the number of tables i can reasonably expect to play at 1/2 and be profitable is less than what i thought it would be (go figure...people there can actually play half decent poo flinging poker) and this months experiment kind of showed me what the game quality of the 6max 0.5/1 to 2/4 games are like.....not that anyone cares but i expect to play FR and 6max at different times based on mood and games available so you aint seen the last of me (elpe i dont know if you know my SN but we have indeed played at the same tables a few times this month....maybe you were targetting me whilst i was targeting the bigger fish. heh)

end blog

No i don't know your SN. Have you been taking my moneys? I wonder which colour tag i have you on...
And what colour tag you have on me...