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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 03-15-2017, 05:12 AM   #1
concept
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To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

We playing on a lot of action fish farms,(10-handed, 4-8 to 10-20)

hero dealt good hands(AK, AQ, JJ, TT)and late action at preflop (5+ limpers)

maybe that hands is best at preflop, but how about to flat?

most fish do not give up at preflop, they want see flop.

thay have any suited, two broadway, any ace, any conneter.

i think good hand(like AK, AQ, TT) are in invers proportion to more multiway pot

no matter how fish they are, the value of what they hand is not bad.

if you can build the pot at any time after the flop, i think it is not too bad to flatten a good hand, except for AA KK in the preflop.

how are your opinions?
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:06 AM   #2
Bob148
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

Hello welcome to the forum.

I'd raise those hands from any position no matter the number of limpers because I think it's the most profitable way to play the hand.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:07 AM   #3
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

I would build the pot preflop and then build it some more after the flop.

There are many reasons to raise in LHE. To get people to fold is one of the rarer ones.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:39 AM   #4
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

Some old advice to consider. Click down to the articles

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...dvice-1372062/
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:42 AM   #5
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

Hey concept, welcome to the forum.

Agree with the two who posted above. You have a huge equity edge. Good news, they're always calling. That means you're raising when ahead and getting action, which is exactly where our edge in LHE comes from. They limped a dominated hand (or have one in the blinds behind you), they won't fold, and you get to profit. If you have Theory of Poker, you could look at the section likely titled "Reasons to Slowplay" or something like that. You'll find that AQ or TT don't fit the bill. You get the most money preflop because the people with hopeless hands won't fold, whereas they might fold on the flop. Also in a passive game in a limped pot, it may check to you -- you gave up a preflop raise to make one post flop and then fail to get the chance.

So much this
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There are many reasons to raise in LHE. To get people to fold is one of the rarer ones.
As a starting point for LHE, make the pot bigger when you're ahead. Value bet them to death.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:09 PM   #6
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

At those stakes an ABC tag style will get the money so just raise those type hands pre. As for myself, being a reg w/ a particular table image, I limp them ~5% of the time and maybe I shouldn't even do that bec at those stakes (again) 'they' don't care if a raise means that I've got a good value hand. Most of them don't even know what that is and instead think 'I've got possibilities' and get their money in bad repeatedly.
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Old 03-15-2017, 01:19 PM   #7
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

If there are 5 others people in the pot and you have AK - AT and you flop top pair, at most only 2 other players can also flop the same pair. For example, you raise AK and the flop is K52. You have one K, the board has a second K, and there are only 2 more K's left for your opponents to have - and maybe both of the 2 remaining K's are still in the deck. So you bet the flop and everyone without one of the K's folds, you lose most of your customers. On the other hand, after 5 opponents limp in and you raise your AK preflop, they will all call. You are going to win the hand much more than 1 out of 6 times (since you have better starting cards), and when you do win the pot it will be a much larger pot than if you had limped in. This is exactly how you win money at low limit poker, and not doing this is one big reason why many low limit players lose money. You MUST raise these hands.
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:03 PM   #8
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveopie View Post
For example, you raise AK and the flop is K52. You have one K, the board has a second K, and there are only 2 more K's left for your opponents to have - and maybe both of the 2 remaining K's are still in the deck. So you bet the flop and everyone without one of the K's folds ...
Assuming people fold without a K here is unreasonable. 5s call, 2s call, 43 calls, flush draws call, A4/A3/64/63 calls. QQ-66 may have limped preflop and call the flop. AQ-AT may even call because they think the ace is good and big pot can't fold.
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:18 PM   #9
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

Nov. 2014? Virtuoso level
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:22 PM   #10
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
Assuming people fold without a K here is unreasonable. 5s call, 2s call, 43 calls, flush draws call, A4/A3/64/63 calls. QQ-66 may have limped preflop and call the flop. AQ-AT may even call because they think the ace is good and big pot can't fold.
Ain't this the truth. Every session I sit there amazed (which should prob have quotes around it bec, not really amazed) that 7 players can call a pf raise and many - sometimes all - call a flop (w/e it is) bet and I'm left thinking 'how can all of these players have a piece of the flop? But call they do.
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Old 03-15-2017, 07:49 PM   #11
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

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Originally Posted by Howard Beale View Post
Ain't this the truth. Every session I sit there amazed (which should prob have quotes around it bec, not really amazed) that 7 players can call a pf raise and many - sometimes all - call a flop (w/e it is) bet and I'm left thinking 'how can all of these players have a piece of the flop? But call they do.
I'm amazed at the opposite. Someone will limp and call a cap preflop and then fold getting 19 to 1 closing the action on the flop
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Old 03-15-2017, 07:52 PM   #12
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

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Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle View Post
I'm amazed at the opposite. Someone will limp and call a cap preflop and then fold getting 19 to 1 closing the action on the flop
You've GOT to find out what they'd had, you just have to, and report back!
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:36 PM   #13
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

NM, thought it over: A hand like 65 is prob correct to fold the KQ9 flop.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:13 PM   #14
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

Make the 9 into the 4 and the fold is terrible. Yet people will do so. Big mistakes. Can go either way.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:11 PM   #15
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
Assuming people fold without a K here is unreasonable. ...
Yes, of course you're right. Players will also make post flop mistakes. I was trying to say that if you pass up an opportunity preflop to bloat the pot while you are a favorite, you may not get the chance to make up the lost value on later streets. I guess I should have just said that instead of trying to invent an example.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:04 AM   #16
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

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Make the 9 into the 4 and the fold is terrible. Yet people will do so. Big mistakes. Can go either way.
I don't see that much in my game. Anybody w/ a draw in sight using the Hubble Telescope calls.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:52 PM   #17
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

Then you play in truly amazing games and any limping you with premium hands is costing you a ton. If they call with any 3 straight or 3 flush no matter the situation, you just need to keep hitting the value button as often as the dealer will let you throw in more chips. Any of your "mix it up" kinds of plays are just bleeding profit. The biggest value is in having two of the same draw in the pot, so if there are two backdoor draws, one of them is drawing dead to running trips or two pair and you and the better draw are chopping it up (with the made hand crushing the BD draw).
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:29 PM   #18
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

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Then you play in truly amazing games and any limping you with premium hands is costing you a ton. If they call with any 3 straight or 3 flush no matter the situation, you just need to keep hitting the value button as often as the dealer will let you throw in more chips. Any of your "mix it up" kinds of plays are just bleeding profit. The biggest value is in having two of the same draw in the pot, so if there are two backdoor draws, one of them is drawing dead to running trips or two pair and you and the better draw are chopping it up (with the made hand crushing the BD draw).
Talking Stick's 8-16 is usually a very, very good game and I only get to play the day game, would love to play nights but I can't. And, tbh, even though that level doesn't need much in the way of balancing plays that 20-40 does I think it still has some positive effect. OTOH, you could be right. I've had players tell me that they think I play well but if they have a playable hand they are going to call my raise anyway which they do. I've thought about it a bit before making this reply and I realize that some of my 'mix it up' is to make it less boring for me. That's probably both good and bad but I do keep it to a very small percent.

In other news I game changed to the 8-16 0E on Tuesday bec it happened that the HE was not that great and I won 4 racks. Posted one of the hands in the ultra-low frequented Stud forum. It's a very unusual situation and the poster that I admire the most in that forum, sn 'electrical', told me what I already had realized. Here's a link:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/20...h-7th-1658716/
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:06 AM   #19
TheHip41
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Re: To good hand flat, playing at fish farm

Quote:
Originally Posted by concept View Post
We playing on a lot of action fish farms,(10-handed, 4-8 to 10-20)

hero dealt good hands(AK, AQ, JJ, TT)and late action at preflop (5+ limpers)

maybe that hands is best at preflop, but how about to flat?

most fish do not give up at preflop, they want see flop.

thay have any suited, two broadway, any ace, any conneter.

i think good hand(like AK, AQ, TT) are in invers proportion to more multiway pot

no matter how fish they are, the value of what they hand is not bad.

if you can build the pot at any time after the flop, i think it is not too bad to flatten a good hand, except for AA KK in the preflop.

how are your opinions?

When you have AA or TT or AK, you want fish to pay an extra bet PF with hands like T5o, 74s, A5o, etc

**** them. Raise your big hands for pure value.
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