Live 10, 4 handed

SB is loose/straightforward post

BB is tight and more aggressive than most players at these stakes

Hero is button with 65ss

CO folds, Hero raises, blinds both call

Flop T42ssc. Flopped a flush draw and a gutshot.

Blinds check, hero bets, SB calls, BB raises, Hero 3!

My thoughts:

Preflop, this is normally the bottom of my opening range but I'm wondering if the loose SB shifts this to a fold?

On the flop, we have great equity but little SDV unimproved, so this seems like a good hand to reraise and barrel off (unless both villains make it to the river in which case I wouldn't fire the last bet unimproved). Does that plan make sense?

Does anyone delay a raise to the turn?


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Pre is fine. The SB is loose but he is also straight forward, which is good.

I'd play it the same way post.

I'd be more inclined to delay if it was HU.

I can't even analyze this until you tell me what value you raise on the flop and why. I suspect that you never have AA or TT here.

Thanks for the replies. At game speed I actually would 3! with hands like AA and TT (strictly for value) but call with weaker tens (probably about T9) and below.

That said, I haven't played much at all for the last few years, so that might be wrong and I wouldn't realize it.

I'll think about how I play my entire range in this spot and post an update when I'm home this evening.


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Don't get me wrong, splitting ranges can be fine here. This hand probably works fine in your 3 bet / barrel off range as long as that range also has TT, 44, 22, QQ, AT, etc.

Why blow the small blind out here? I'd call the raise.

I'd call the flop raise because once the big blind raises the flop 3 ways, I assume that he's going to showdown the vast majority of the time until proven otherwise.

If somehow the small blind finds a fold on the flop, I'll raise the turn. If the small blind calls the flop raise, which will happen with a probability approaching (1), then I'm going to call the turn and fold the river unimproved.

So I did a little work in equilab and I think I'll stick with JT+ for 3-betting my value hands (although T9 and T8 do have just over 55% equity versus my estimate of BB's range). I'm ignoring SB and maybe that's a mistake but his range is still very wide.

So I end up approaching this flop with these frequencies:

Check: ~32%
B/F: ~4%
B/C: ~43%
B/3: ~22%

The B/3 value range is [AT-JT,AA-TT,44,22] for 81 combos. BB will be getting 12:1 on a call (if SB folds) so we want 1/13th of the total combos bet to be bluffs. That's 6.2 combos and my selections would be my smallest flush draws since they have little showdown value and retain their equity against the stronger parts of BB's range.

That all sound good?

Bob, I hear you that if BB if basically never folding then we shouldn't be bluffing. I sort of felt like I could get some folds a non-zero percentage of the time but maybe that's due to my recent inexperience.

Which do you consider the most profitable bluffing hand on the flop? Hint: it's obviously not the hand with the least equity.

I think that if there is a most profitable strategy that includes bluffs here on the flop, which I'm not even sure is true because of the big blinds likely showdown frequency, then it seems to me that such a strategy would build a bluffing range with the hands that are the most profitable bluffs relative to the profitability of calling that same combo.

So one of three things will happen when we observe the most profitable strategy here on the flop:

1) the button will not bluff.

2) the button will bluff with the most profitable hands at 100% frequency unless the profitability of calling is higher.

3) the button will bluff at mixed frequency depending on the strength of the draw.

I think that against really good players, #3 is most likely to be true.

Against players that will showdown the vast majority of the time #1 is most likely to be true. Perhaps this is a chance to point out that I'm quite conditioned to expect this due to playing so much online.

Against everyone else, #2 will be true.

Notice that you don't need a calculator to construct any of these strategies.

Like if I'm bb and get three on this flop ive almost already decided to show down. You just polarize your range so much because you can't rep much.

If anything I'm going to be tempted to raise the turn more as a bluff if the sb calls, not folds. Like if a sexy red Q peels.

I guess it depends on what kind of range the bb raises here but especially if it gets heads up, you almost can't bluff me out of this pot because the only cards that I'd ever fold to, beat me. The only hand you ever really get me to fold is bigger draws but you're blocking a lot of the sexy cards. I'd just rather let the sb tag along and pad the pot, and hope to ninja you later

I would never raise this flop with TT or AA either though

I'm not a fan of pre-flop, although the tight BB makes it somewhat more defensible.

I just call the raise on the flop. I want two opponents available to pay me off when I hit my draw. I'm really not a fan of turning this into a bluff, but if I AM going to do it, I agree with ZOMG, do it by bluff-raising a turn card that hits your perceived range.

Agree that the most important thing is to consider our entire flop 3b range. It can be too tempting to turn every K- flush into a bluff with way too few value hands. That said, This is one of the better FD combos to bluff with since it has the GS. With this combo, my preference would be to 3b flop, planning to check back turn unimproved and bluffing river if checked to. QJss is my preferred hand to 3b and barrel.

3-bet-check-bet looks like a bluffing line that's going to get looked up a LOT.

Disagree. Most people barrel with their bluffs. We are repping weak value, and we are mostly targeting other busted draws anyways. Depending on run out, they should also be leading river a ton.

Weak value that can 3b a 24T flop but not barrel a turn? That going to be a pretty narrow range for any one who can hand read or has played against you. If you check back the turn we're still going to be 3w too. So they both have to have draws, or being winning to fold a pair to your weak line, and no one with a missed draw can donk the river since it looks like you just missed the ace high flush.

If you play in games where you can regularly successfully check turns and bluff rivers, I want to know where these games here.

In every game I can remember, that line looks like a bluff and even fish can figure it out. I've seen people get called with Queen high.

+1. I'd rather not spew another bet here and wait for the turn.

Also you want to keep the SB in and not give him the chance to fold since your hand is so strong.

Like above posted BB is most likely always going to SD here. Make sure when you hit your hand that the SB is still in also.

GL hope you scooped the pot!

SB call is usually very weak. So, BB could be trying to raise with a 2 or 4 or aggressively with a lot of air. SB's weak call encourages us to 3b light just in case we are ahead: stuff like 55, 33, A4, some A2s, AKbd. Because we are raising so light, our turn check range should not be as narrow as you think. If SB calls our 3b, going for cheap showdown is the plan. That's the way I read the situation.

Except the problem is that the scary turns cards those hands should be checking back the turn against, actually hit our actual hand.