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Micro-Small Stakes Limit Discussions about micro-small stakes Texas Hold'em (all stakes up to around 15/30)

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Old 02-15-2008, 04:39 PM   #26
skillgambler
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

http://rapidshare.com/files/92157268/shc.zip.html

all charts in open office format + all charts in one pdf

edit: second page slightly ****ed up, but w/e
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:14 PM   #27
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

skill..thank you for condensing to two pages, very helpful.... however, i do not understand your color codes. For example you have yellow for both raise and call. I am sure it is something obvious, but I don't get it
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:23 PM   #28
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

yeah basically i did this:

green: pocket pairs Yellow: anything soooooted Red(ish): unsuited stuff

this is basically just for viewing pleasure.

then i kinda figured it would be good to have different colors for raise/call for all this stuff for better handling. nothing too deep.

edit: fixed 2nd page: old linkl

edit 2: again http://rapidshare.com/files/92220917/shcAll.pdf.html

Last edited by skillgambler; 02-15-2008 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 02-16-2008, 04:19 PM   #29
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Great work!
Thanks!
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:33 PM   #30
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by skillgambler View Post
yeah basically i did this:

green: pocket pairs Yellow: anything soooooted Red(ish): unsuited stuff

this is basically just for viewing pleasure.

then i kinda figured it would be good to have different colors for raise/call for all this stuff for better handling. nothing too deep.

edit: fixed 2nd page: old linkl

edit 2: again http://rapidshare.com/files/92220917/shcAll.pdf.html
Is this down or does Rapishare hate me??

Edit: Obviously Rapidshare made trouble. It made me wait 35 minutes even though I havent downloaded anything lately.
Thanks for the work SG!!

Last edited by Volkan-20; 02-21-2008 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:00 PM   #31
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Rapidshare hates you fwiw

edit: http://www.file-upload.net/download-...hcAll.pdf.html

try this.
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Old 02-23-2008, 02:56 PM   #32
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Once again thanks to leader and skill for their work on this. This is so much better than the other hand chart.

I have a few questions and observations, ....i looked through my data base (1-2 and 2-4) and I raise A2s+ from middle position first in and on aggregate I am a pretty big winner with these hands (data base 130,000 hands), am I just getting lucky or can you safely play AXs earlier? I think A7s as a min. might be a little tight.

Also, I am a big loser when first in with 22 from the CO ( I always raise first in), I am still playing this, but wonder how others are doing with it.

Also, I question the AJO three bet from all postions against UTG raiser , I know this is highly dependent on the raiser, but I ran poker stove, using leaders utg opening hand requirements and we were a slight underdog (about 52 vs 48), does picking up the blinds and being in position negate this and what about being in the SB out of position?


Does anyone have stats on stealing from CO and Button with k7Oand k5o respectively? I don't see how this could be profitable, I have no stats on this, but I am a small loser with k8 and k7 from the button, but not really enough trials. Stox recommends K9o from both of those positions.

Lastly, as a default what hands do you add to defending from BB against sb raise. Wouldn't you want to defend with any A or any K, against an unknown, since you are in position and getting 3 to 1 odds?
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Old 03-15-2008, 03:54 AM   #33
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Hello!
If the game I play is 5 handed can I just opening from the MP kolumn UTG or do I have to do some adjustment?
Ty for a very nice chart.

Per
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Old 03-15-2008, 03:56 AM   #34
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

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Originally Posted by ordens15 View Post
Hello!
If the game I play is 5 handed can I just opening from the MP kolumn UTG or do I have to do some adjustment?
Yes. Just assume UTG folded.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:18 PM   #35
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
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Lastly, as a default what hands do you add to defending from BB against sb raise. Wouldn't you want to defend with any A or any K, against an unknown, since you are in position and getting 3 to 1 odds?
See the first post:

When you face a raise from the small blind, you can reasonability defend almost any hand especially if small blind is an aggressive player. However, many of these hands are difficult to play post flop. Therefore, until you have a good understanding of limit holdem you should restrict yourself to the following:

Any pocket pair, any Ax, Kxs, K4o+, Q5s+, Q6o+, J6s+, J8o, T6s+, T7o+, 96s+, 97o+, 85s+, 86o+, 75s+, 75o+, 64s+, 65o, 54s
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Old 04-13-2008, 10:05 AM   #36
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quick question:

with regard to KJs on the BTN vs. a raise...

Facing a raise from EP, it says to fold.
Facing a raise and 1 CC, it says to raise.
Facing a raise and 2 CC, it says to raise.

My question is, why do we fold to just the raiser but raise if there is a raise and a cold-call? Is that just an oversight? Or is there a strategic reason for it? If so, what is it?

Thanks.
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Old 04-13-2008, 10:37 AM   #37
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Normalcy,

Equity advantage w/ position.
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:57 PM   #38
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by normalcy View Post
Quick question:

with regard to KJs on the BTN vs. a raise...

Facing a raise from EP, it says to fold.
Facing a raise and 1 CC, it says to raise.
Facing a raise and 2 CC, it says to raise.

My question is, why do we fold to just the raiser but raise if there is a raise and a cold-call? Is that just an oversight? Or is there a strategic reason for it? If so, what is it?

Thanks.
Everything in poker is about your equity in relation to the money in the pot.
Playing hu with a strong hand in a small pot, requires a very good hand. Playing multiway in a larger pot for the same amount even if one of our opponents has a strong hand, requires less strength because when we win, we win more.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:24 AM   #39
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

thank you, i get it now. HU/small pot requires more strength to profit than multi-way/big pot.

40% equity in a 5 big bet pot is not worth as much as 25% equity in a 10 big bet pot. that is the idea, if im not mistaken.

fwiw, over first 4k hands, following the chart pretty strictly, i was running at about 25/16 with 30% att. to steal. since then, with datamining, i am using stats based reads to iso-raise loose limpers a bit more an have jumped to about 27/18 with 32% att. to steal. not a huge diff. but noticeable.

thanks again. before reading this info that you have provided, i was playing SUPER weak-tight (both pre and post flop). i think it was 22/12 or something like that.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:43 PM   #40
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

This might be a dumb question, but...

Which chart do you use if there's a limper and a raise from late position? Would you use the "Facing a Raise from Late Position" chart or the "Facing a Raise and a Cold Caller" chart? Or some hybrid of both?

And does the answer change if you have a read saying that the limper will almost always fold if it comes two bets back to him? What if you have a read saying the limper will almost always call if it comes two bets back to him?
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:26 AM   #41
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by poker4life View Post
This might be a dumb question, but...

Which chart do you use if there's a limper and a raise from late position? Would you use the "Facing a Raise from Late Position" chart or the "Facing a Raise and a Cold Caller" chart? Or some hybrid of both?

And does the answer change if you have a read saying that the limper will almost always fold if it comes two bets back to him? What if you have a read saying the limper will almost always call if it comes two bets back to him?
It's probably closer to the cold caller chart. The situations are different however. A CC'er will generally have a stronger and more PP heavy range then a limper.

I wouldn't say the answer on which chart to use changes, but there is some difference in how you should play in those spots. You'd want to play/3-bet many more hands if that opponent is always folding because he's offering you extra overlay. You'd be getting close to 3 to 5.5 with the blind money. I'd imagine you could pop anything that had 40+% equity vs the raisers range.
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:56 PM   #42
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

bumping for a friend
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:57 PM   #43
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

this is in the first posts. Essencial reading if im not mistaken
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:24 PM   #44
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Great post! thnx!

I've just decided to start learning limit hold'em again this month, so this post will be very useful for me.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:27 PM   #45
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

you should read also the post stiky --Essencial reading. Very usefull
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:36 PM   #46
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

i just read again these thread and see many thing i do differently.
So maybe i do lot of mystake.
i play in ftp 2/4 so the metagame/rack/player/etc are not the change what that must be change some things.
Obviously what i will say about what play i do differently as no meaning because is really depend about the blind and how i can exploit the player i, front off me who open limp.

But if i can improove something or more understand some conception i would be happy.

So i just put what i play pf differently about the chart of leader.


one limper :
In BB i raise a lot more, like 55+ when hu 77+ when 3way, A9o 3way,A5o hu.
77 sb i can raise
66 i raise mp co boutton an call sb.
A8s sb sometimes i already think is a raise, if i know well vilain postflop or bb is tiht i raise.
A6s i raise mp co bt
A5-a2s i raise co bt
ATo i raise sb
Q9s i raise mp co bt
QJo i raise mp bt
JTs-J9s i raise mp co bt
T9s i raise mp co bt

against 2limper
i raise A8s+ and call A6s
i don't raise a9o and call it
i don't raise a8o i fold it
i fold K8s- and see many discuss ont it probably a way too tight
i raise QTs co
i fold Q8s-
i fold QTo
i raise JTs
i fold J8s
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:12 AM   #47
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

Quote:
88-99/AJs-ATs/AJo/KQs


These hands are very strong and should generally be raised or 3-bet pf. If its 3-bets cold to you, you may fold depending on the conditions.

you "might" fold AJo if it's 3bet cold to you

lmao

I'd fold most of these if it's raise/3bet in front of me.

AJs and 99 I might cap depending on the players that are raising.

As a default though, AJo is not the nuts when there is already 2 raises in front of you.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:51 PM   #48
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

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Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
you "might" fold AJo if it's 3bet cold to you

lmao

I'd fold most of these if it's raise/3bet in front of me.

AJs and 99 I might cap depending on the players that are raising.

As a default though, AJo is not the nuts when there is already 2 raises in front of you.
Just of curiosity.What are your VP$IP and PFR stats?
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:52 PM   #49
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

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Originally Posted by Apanage View Post
Just of curiosity.What are your VP$IP and PFR stats?

26-18-1.8 over like a billion hands
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:12 PM   #50
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Re: Beginner PF Play with Starting Hand Charts

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Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
26-18-1.8 over like a billion hands
The reason I asked is because of all good posters I most often share your opinion , especially about preflop decisions.
So I have wondered if that depended on that we play similar styles.Which we obviously do if you play 26/18/1.8.
Because that is what I play when I dont push myself to play laggier.
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