Live 8-16 game with 1/2 Kill.

I hold KhKs 5off and open raise. 2off, button and BB call.

Flop comes Kc7s3h. BB bets, I call, 2off calls and button folds.

Turn comes 9s. BB checks, I bet, 2off calls and BB calls.

River comes As. BB bets, I raise, 2off calls and BB folds.

2off holds 6s2s for the flush.

1. Was only calling on the flop too risky?

2. Would you raise the river?

River raise is mandatory.
I probably just call this flop, but the correct play might very well be a raise. Even tho there is very little risk associated with calling (top set on a dry board), slowplaying is seldom a good idea in small stakes holdem.

With top set, you basically should put in the most money you can at every opportunity until you get 3 bet on a big street. Then you should look at the board and ascertain whether or not you still hold the nuts....In short, raise the flop, man, raise the flop.

This is a good opportunity for a slowplay - there are no draws available except for a possible 65/64/54 gutshot. Letting the two players behind peel for a one-pair hand (Ax, QJ, etc) will make you more money than blowing them out and only getting action from the case K. Raising is acceptable too, and may be best depending on your image.

River raise is good.

Meh. The reason I don't slow play hands like this is that if I do make the expert slow play and then get sucked out on like this I go on tilt for an hour or two and do nothing but berate myself for the play. If you can not do that, then sure, make expert slow play. Me raiseum, me has set.

In general I wouldn't slowplay very often in limit. What I have noticed is when no limit players try and play limit they slowplay too much. The big problem with slowplaying in limit is there just isn't the implied odds of being able to take a big chunck out of someones stack like you can in NL. There just probably isn't enough implied value to be gained because at most you will pick up a few extra big bets. So in general in limit play your big hands fast and slowplay less than you would in NL.

Notice in this hand on such a harmless board how do you expect to make more money by playing it slow? What card do you want to see on the turn/river that may give your opponents a hand which can call a turn and/or river bet?

I just think that on such a harmless board we probably are only really going to get paid off by someone with the case K, unless someone maybe has QQ, JJ, TT, 99 or 88 (but there was no reraise pre). If we slowplay and on the turn someone picks up a straight or flush draw (as was the case here) this may actually be bad because if river completes their draw we lose (assuming the river doesn't also give you a full). And what do we gain from someone who picks up a draw and misses? 1.5 big bets. In TOP Sklanksy says that a small mistake is one that costs a few bets but a big mistake is one that costs you the whole pot. So really I don't see the value in slowplaying here.

This board is about as dry as it can get, I like the slowplay here. Whereas I tend to fastplay everything.

And I definately raise the river, the bdfd that came in was especially unlikely as we have the K and the Ace is there.

This river was our 'bingo' card, all those fish we let chase cheaply with an Ace now pay off 2 big bets.

There a many cards that come on the turn, that pay us off. Aces, 7, 3, and PP that hits a set. Any X that makes a 3,7,K two pair.

On the flop, we have two people to act after us, maybe one of them makes a move on the pot, or tries a free card play.

Whilst I do agree that slowplaying in limit is rarely correct, on a board this dry, I dont mind it.

If someone has a 7 lets assume their hand is 67 then
p(trip 7s on the turn)= 2/[52-(2+2+3)]
=4.4%

So we should slowplay here because 1 in every 22.5 times we do slowplay here someone with a 7 will trip up on the turn??? That must give us a lot of extra value!

Even if we let one player have 67 and another 43 then
p(trip 7s or 3s on turn)= 4/[52-(2+2+2+3)]
=9.3%

So even if we let two players have pairs on the flop the chances of someone tripping up are 9.3%. Or one in every 10.8 times we slowplay someone makes a set.

Ok lets add in someone with 55 to our 67 and 43 people. then
p(trip 7s, 6s or 3s on turn)=6/[52-(2+2+2+2+3)]
=14.6%
So even in this miracle case only 1 in every 6.8 times we slowplay in this situation will someone trip up.

We dont only get increased action from people tripping up, we also get action on the turn from 2 pair hands and a random ace hitting on the turn. We get action on the flop from the case King yet to act behind us. So ar from needing a miracle to get us action, much of the deck could bring action.

When the BB leads into us on the flop, I would have his range as Kx, 7x, 88+ and maybe 33. Weighted towards Kx.

With two to act behind us, when we raise, what can we hope is calling on such a dry board ? Our villains called two pre flop, but now the range they can call 2 with on this flop, is extremely narrow.

Lets give them a chance to hit or make a play.

What are we affraid of outdrawing us on this flop ?

acetonitrile,

good posts bro, keep em up.

In this case rising the flop, it probably would not have changed the outcome as the 62s player would have called two bets on the flop. So in 19 out of 20 times you would have made less by not raising and this 1 time out of 20 you lost less.

The slow/fast depends upon the BB and why is he donking the flop. Does he have a K and wants to know if you have AK? Or is he the type to bet whenever he has any part of the flop irrespective of the PF action? From his donk on the river I guess it is the latter and he has A7 or A3 for two pair, so it seems that you should have raised his flop donk as he would not have folded a worse K to a raise.

No we shouldn't be affraid here. But I was just trying to raise a few points.

Firstly, I don't think we gain much implied value by slowplaying here. If we slowplay as you did and Mr 62s misses his draw we only gain a flop call and a turn call which is 1.5 big bets (assume if we were to raise Mr 62s doesn't call 2 bets on the flop - this is reasonable because he has 6 high with only backdoor possibilities - and if you think he is calling 2 bets then you absolutely must be raising the flop and slowplaying is definitely incorrect). But in order to gain these 1.5 big bets what have we risked? The WHOLE POT. What would have happened had we raised? If our assumption that Mr 62s folds to a flop raise is true then BB calls our raise and calls turn, folds river. What have we missed out on by raising? Only 1 big bet.

Secondly, the probability that a turn will give one of your opponents a monster is extremely low. If the BB does have second or third pair or a small pp the chance of him tripping up are 4.4%. If ace comes it actually could kill our action if BB has the King. If he actually does have the ace is he going to be willing to play a big pot and be raising you? Probably not. You raised preflop and he called two bets cold, he then called a bet on the flop with one overcard, sounds like a loose passive player to me he will most likely just call you down and hope his ace is good. I just don't see where all this magical implied value is coming from. The only time we figure to get serious action is if someone trips up or if someone makes a flush which gives you a full. If you have the K of spades in your hand then the probability of 62s making a flush and you making a full are 0.8%. If you don't have the K of spades then the probability of 62s making a flush and you making a full or quads is 1.4%. These just aren't going to happen often enough.

I just fail to see how we gain any decent amount of value by slowplaying here. Thats really my argument, I am not affraid of him outdrawing us on the flop, I'm just saying that we don't really gain enough value to make slowplaying the right option on the flop.

Question: Snap you and Mr 62s switch places on the flop. BB bets, Mr 62s calls, now the action is on you. Do you just call or raise here?

One thing to consider when deciding whether or not to raise a monster flop is how likely is the flop bettor to continue betting on the turn. In general, the higher the highest card on the flop, the less likely an overcard is to come and, therefore, the more likely is the flop bettor to bet again on the turn.

This was a perfect flop to slowplay and trap; slowplaying was not too risky. We lose a hand with K-K to 6-2 who hits runner/runner and all seems wrong with the world. The guy who won the hand called your preflopraise with 6-2s, he probably would have called a flop raise to see the turn card anyway.

The river raise is fine because you're not likely to get 3-bet by a flush since you have the highest non-board flush card in your hand and you're going to get called by lots of hands that you beat. Guys who cold-call preflop with 6-2 will cold-call the river with lots of stuff.

Beats like this are a part of limit poker. You keep playing with K-K against their 6-2 and you'll get the money.

This.

Nice to see you here, Andy.

Snap, this is the whole reason not to post results. It is especially the reason not to post them in the thread title. The decision point in this hand is the flop. Do you slowplay? Just post the reads and the hand up until this point, then ask, "This is a dry board and I have the near-nuts. I'm afraid this guy is going to fold. Is this the place to slowplay? Do I make more money if I just raise and lead the turn and river?" You'll get much better answers from the forum.