Standard 4/8 game. Main villain in hand is a bad reg who earlier was pretty steamed up that I called his turn bet getting 5.5:1 with the nut flush draw and two overs. He has been eager to show me how to play properly since.

One raise and two cold callers to me in the CO, I 3! AJcc, villain calls in the SB, BB and all the rest call.

Flop: 2s 6c 3c

Checks to me and I bet, villain x/r's, BB cold calls, folds back to me. I?

I'd call because he has 88 and will bet the turn then I get to either draw for one bet on the turn or raise any improvement with a ton of equity.

multiway ( 3 players right with us ?) i just raise the flop for pure value.
We might get a cheap SD on the river.

We have more equity on the flop than on turn arent we ?

Why let BB call only 1 bet with a Q or a K and he hit on the turn while we hit a J on the river after for example ?

Two players with us, just the blinds.

hulk smash

"We have more equity on the flop than on turn arent we ?"

I think our equity will change drastically for the better on the turn when we hit or will be cut in half when we miss which is about 50% of the time. Implied odds in spots that our opponents shouldn't be involved in are the gravy of poker profits. What kind of players end up in these spots that a better player wouldn't be in? The kind that coldcall in the small blind without thinking of the strategic implications of such a play and also the kind that thinks "small blind is in so oh well it's only a small bet I call because lol pot odds."

What if he just four bets his over pair?

Who cares ?
We have enough equity ( beside facing AA) to gobble it .
If the other players come along , well more money padding the pot .
And sometimes to compensate, I am the one having the AA ...

And our IO will be greater with position if we face an overpair when we hit because he cap.
Will be able to raise on the big street.

What if he donks the turn on safe cards that a proper preflop coldcall range should only rarely hit.

Usually we should have more value than bluff in our hand range.
So if he donk and he got lucky we had a draw and not our big value hands, well c'est la vie ...
We still have a good hand anyway .

Or he realizes your range has more draws than monsters and is going to max ownage

well yeah if you play bad ....
we dont have a ton of flush draw here, well i dont anyway.

I mean. What else are you jamming? You have overpairs and flush draws. Depending on high up the sb's assumed overpair is you start narrowing that range quickly.

And some point it doesn't matter what your actual range is, just what they think it is. And they're going to think this is a cheap showdown move with a flush draw a lot. Especially to a villain trying to show you up or prove you bad. He smoothed in the Sb with QQ or TT like a champ, and now you want to prove him right by doing exactly what he wants and expects you to do a lot of the time.

When you three bet the flop, he's just going to be thinking 'got ya *****.'

But when we 3bet EP players with 2 cold caller we already have a narrow range right ?
I mean i love to 3 bet with 77,88 etc but in this hand i would rather cold call for example.
Same thing with QJs,KJs,etc.

Maybe it is a mistake and i really do not know because i am basically a 6max players, so facing those situation do not happen.

But i just think the bottom of my 3bet range in 6 max would do better here by simply calling with so many c/caller already.
Might be a mistake and i really do not know, would be interesting to know your opinion?

So yeah, it narrows my range quickly with flush draw with small SD value (Ahigh) and over pair already but that what i have anyway.

I dont think hiding info when the pot gets 4+ people in it is really important, just jam for value and get the money as soon as you can imo.


Well it is good imo, because i will have more value hand than draws while my my draw the chance that i actually win is really high, so i am fine with it actually.

I mean if it was HU i would not jam but with the BB in the hand everything change, you want that guy to pay or fold, whether i have TT or a huge draw.
If he calls well good, i win in both situation since i am a favorite of him and this pot getting huge pretty quickly.

What kind of range do you think the 4/8 player has in the Sb? Because I have a feeling his range is much stronger than you're giving him credit for here and he's going to be just fine with you three betting a lot too

I mean you say your range is strong, but he also cold called three as the fourth player in and then c/r'd the flop. We also seem to be ignoring the BB but his line is pretty strong too

FWIW my range in this spot is pretty narrow as Montreal says, I don't have middling pocket pairs or middling suited connectors here.

I was prepared to jam this pot, as I expected more than just the BB to cold call the x/r, but when it came back to me with just one call, I wondered what was best.

ZOMG, BB is a pretty weak player who's on vacation. I had seen him calling down pretty light in spots, so I don't think he has to be super strong here.

Bob had the soul read, and I also pinned him for an overpair, though I think he would go ahead and 4b QQ+ pf. I did 3b, but looking back on it I do think Bob's line makes a lot of sense, but only if he will continue when my flush card comes out, which I'm not 100% sure of.

I didn't see his hand, but he x/c'd down the turn and river after I made my flush on the turn. I paired the jack on the river and he said that would've been good enough, so 77-TT.

I guess I wasn't really considering you could still get 88to call you down even after the flush came in.

It's probably pretty close and may hinge upon what he does with JJ or QQ pf. If he 4b those it may be close to a whatever on the flop as long as you don't do something dumb.

And there are narrow ranges and there are narrow ranges. Having a narrow range in a 3b pot on a 236 flop is very different than one on QT7 flop. Like you just have no bluffs on the 236 board. You have over pairs and big flush draws, and you can almost be assured this hand is going to showdown always. This is obvious also though to guy in the SB who cold called 3 and then still c/r'd you. Like he has the exact same range excepts his also includes sets and 45s if he's feeling saucy simply because he was a blind and six way pot.

The turn was the 2c, so maybe his call down doesn't look quite so bad. I think he is flatting JJ and 4b QQ like 100%.

$Flop

So our three bet the flop range is basically 18 combos of QQ+, and as high as 8 but more likely 4 combos of flush draws?

Do you always three bet your big pairs on this? What hands are you just bet calling the flop with?

B/3! combos looks about right. Against two opponents I believe I do 3bet all my big pairs. That leaves my bet/call range pretty weak I suppose with only non-fd overs and maybe TT? EDIT: although it was so multiway I'm not sure I'm betting all my hands on the flop.

I like this discussion, I have a hard time thinking through range construction and combo counting on my own without prompting.

You shouldn't be betting a lot on the this flop. Actually depending on what your pf range is, you may be betting just about only over pairs and flush draws. You're just going to get c/r and end up isolating yourself against a better hand so often or getting blown off whatever little bit of equity you have. Six ways I just expect someone to always showdown. A lot of our range is now just drawing to six murky outs. Check and bink imo

I don't mind just capping the flop and re-evaluating the turn if we miss etc..

help me understand if I am three betting or four betting draws as well as overpairs inst that balanced?
how does that subject me to ownage??