Utg fish limps, I raise TT, two calls behind, BB and utg call.

5 to flop (10 bb): J75
Utg bets, I raise, two calls behind, BB folds, utg calls

4 to turn (9 BB): J
Utg bets. Best play?

Yuck. Time to fold IMO.

Ya fold.

Fold, what hands are you beating now that 4 people called your flop raise?

If the players to my left are loose and fishy at all I would call here. Some percentage of a time you will have the best hand. Sometimes you have all your outs. If a ten spikes you win big. Sometimes the river gets checked. With the board paired it's less likely someone will raise if they have the flush. There are RIO issues for sure.

This spot is gross. I may fold depending on my live reads.

I play lower stakes and don't really have a feel for 8/16... +1 to calling from my perspective. as mongidig said, reads could change that.

Do we really ever want to be call/folding here though? Seems bad.

Nobody's going to criticize the flop raise?

I will, then.

Any reads at all on UTG player? Seems like that should matter a lot.

I think a lot of times UTG isn't intentionally doing anything. I would rank a decent chance he forgot someone raised preflop, and woke up on the flop and was like oh i have a jack whee.

My reaction was "What the hell are you doing?"

Trying to rationalize it, my most convincing argument was as an attempt to slow down UTG. Or maybe OP took a position that UTG was leading with a flush draw and raised to knock out the others.

I'm not happy with either. As played - fold.

Could be, but a good number of players are more likely to donk draws here. That's why I think we could really use a read on UTG.

Calling the flop donk seems like the worst option by far.

I'm not getting how raising isn't the standard play here on the flop.

Raising the flop is terrible and I'm really not sure why people are advocating for it.

Folding turn is terrible, we have the T

Raising the flop is standard.

Sure, if you like isolating yourself against strong ranges and enduring worse hands behind you can't continue.


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An UTG fish has a strong range?

I'd say folding can't be right. Calling seems bad. Look how many draws are on this board he could be donking with not to mention worse pairs.

8/16 is super loose and fishy so utg doesn't only have Jx when he donks flop. He could have any pair or draw. I'd rather not flat and allow others behind to come in for cheap. I'd rather raise and hope to fold out hands like two overs or pair+over and whatnot.

I felt like raise>call>fold but I'm open to suggestions.

Why does calling seem bad? What range do you put the donker on? How is TT doing versus it? Don't people behind have Jacks a fair amount, as hands like J9s, QJo, etc are common cold call hands?

Like what are you trying to accomplish with a raise?


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True, but how thrilled are we if it comes in otr? Board is paired and say there's three players and utg leads out again. Would we call with our flush with one player still behind? I suppose we'd have to if we called to the river but it feels like we'd be shown a better hand the great majority of the time.

A draw to the one card 4th nut flush on a paired board, nowhere near closing the action, isn't too attractive to me.

How many are there, exactly? (Seriously, count 'em up.)

We have good position on the flop to raise for value, try steal equity with multiple fold behind us and we may still have the best hand and we get some info as well .

So a raise is not terrible tho I think a call is good as well .

But once we have multiple caller behind us that call and Utg still bet the turn I think it is a fold , especially when the flush draw hit .
We are at the bottom of our "value range" ( even if we kinda of overplayed a great calling hand) and we still get action with few out to improved, we should take the info we got and fold the turn .

If we were closing the action i would like a call on turn and hoping a FreeSD , but here we aren't closing the action , so fold.

I personally would call the flop and see the action behind.
Our hand is very vulnerable with poor probability of improving and a lot of chance to get outdrawn.
So I don't mind playing this hand passively