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8/16 - two hands. VB river? 8/16 - two hands. VB river?

08-05-2017 , 05:18 PM
Hand 1:
5-way flop (5 SB): 743
X to me OTB with 33, I bet, called by BB who's a calling station.

HU turn (3.5 BB): 2
I bet, BB xc

HU river (5.5 BB): A
BB hesitates for a second then X. Best play?

Hand 2:
EP and HJ limp, I call in CO with Q9, blinds X.

5-way flop (5 SB): QT9
X to me, I bet, HJ xc. No reads as he's a new player.

HU turn (3.5 BB): T
I bet, HJ xc

HU river (5.5 BB): 5
HJ X. Best play?
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-05-2017 , 05:23 PM
Hand #1: Bet. The A makes a lot of two pair. Re-evaluate if raised, and if your opponent isn't capable of bluffing b/f.

Hand #2: Check. You have no kicker, and midpair improved to trips. A high isn't calling and bottom pair isn't either.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-05-2017 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavesofliberty
Hand #1: Bet. The A makes a lot of two pair. Re-evaluate if raised, and if your opponent isn't capable of bluffing b/f.

Hand #2: Check. You have no kicker, and midpair improved to trips. A high isn't calling and bottom pair isn't either.
2nd
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-05-2017 , 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
Hand 1:
5-way flop (5 SB): 743
X to me OTB with 33, I bet, called by BB who's a calling station.

HU turn (3.5 BB): 2
I bet, BB xc

HU river (5.5 BB): A
BB hesitates for a second then X. Best play?

Hand 2:
EP and HJ limp, I call in CO with Q9, blinds X.

5-way flop (5 SB): QT9
X to me, I bet, HJ xc. No reads as he's a new player.

HU turn (3.5 BB): T
I bet, HJ xc

HU river (5.5 BB): 5
HJ X. Best play?
Hand 1 for sure bet folding. His pause may mean a 5, but it could also mean 2 pair.

Hand 2 raise pre. For sure betting river, I'd expect a donk or xr from a T or better at some point so you're only sweating a very passively played better hand
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-05-2017 , 11:48 PM
Hand 1: I would bet this. You can get calls from lots of 2 pair hands here. I would fold to a raise if I had good read on his raising range.

Hand 2: From late position I would raise Q9s preflop. As played I would not bet this river. What hand that you beat would he call with? He probably had a straight or flush draw, which didn't get there, so he is not going to call. If he has a Q with a bad kicker, you are chopping the pot. If he has a Q with a good kicker, you lose. If he has a T you lose. Would he call with A9 or a small pocket pair?
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 05:24 AM
Hand 1 is an easy bet. Hand 2 is player dependent but absent any reads id probably check, sometimes bet against very specific opponents.

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8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 06:27 AM
is raising Q9s pre in this spot standard? If so, how come?
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 07:19 AM
You'd like the button and you stand to have the best hand against two late position limpers. It also keeps your range uncapped.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 08:08 AM
Hand 1 is a slam dunk value bet. He likely hesitated because he has Ax or aces up.

Hand 2 . . . I think I check but it's close. I just don't see you getting called on the river and scooping that much. (I would also raise pre flop.)
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 10:31 AM
I would bet both hands. In hand two we beat K9, J9, 88, AK, AJ and spades that hit a 5 OTR. That's a large enough part of villian's range that he may look you up on the river.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 10:45 AM
Not raising pre though for hand #2.

River of hand #2 is close. Some players w a 9 or small pp will drop. Some tens will xr. Depends on the player.

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 08-06-2017 at 10:53 AM.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
Hand 1 for sure bet folding. His pause may mean a 5, but it could also mean 2 pair.

Hand 2 raise pre. For sure betting river, I'd expect a donk or xr from a T or better at some point so you're only sweating a very passively played better hand
Agree completely
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suchj0sh
You'd like the button and you stand to have the best hand against two late position limpers. It also keeps your range uncapped.
I don't think you usually have the best hand here. Also the keeping your range uncapped doesn't seem like any more of a reason here than it would any other time - that would mean that you should never limp any hands under any circumstances.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I don't think you usually have the best hand here. Also the keeping your range uncapped doesn't seem like any more of a reason here than it would any other time - that would mean that you should never limp any hands under any circumstances.
You're likely to have more than your share of equity, you have position, and by showing initiative you can win without the best hand. Don't play "hit to win."

Last edited by ninefingershuffle; 08-06-2017 at 04:17 PM.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-06-2017 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninefingershuffle
You're likely to have more than your share of equity
This is what I meant.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-07-2017 , 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
is raising Q9s pre in this spot standard? If so, how come?
Since no one else has replied, I will try to explain my thinking.

At 8/16 in my experience you will find a lot of players skilled at hand reading. This can result in you winning a lot of small pots and losing most of the big pots. To counter this you need to widen your raising range. A hand like Q9s from late position is a good hand to raise. It can make straights that hand readers will never put you on after you raise, If you show it down after raising pre-flop they will have to give you a wider raising range which makes there hand reading more difficult.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-07-2017 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeca
At 8/16 in my experience you will find a lot of players skilled at hand reading...
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-07-2017 , 06:41 AM
Q9s doesn't have value, so it's not a valuebet to raise pre.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-07-2017 , 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeca
Since no one else has replied, I will try to explain my thinking.

At 8/16 in my experience you will find a lot of players skilled at hand reading. This can result in you winning a lot of small pots and losing most of the big pots. To counter this you need to widen your raising range. A hand like Q9s from late position is a good hand to raise. It can make straights that hand readers will never put you on after you raise, If you show it down after raising pre-flop they will have to give you a wider raising range which makes there hand reading more difficult.
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Not sure I totally agree with your first sentence however. From what I've seen the majority of 8/16 players tend to be first level thinkers in that they don't care about reading hands...they just care about what they have and trying to make their draw or get to SD with bottom pair.

When I lose big pots it's not because I've been outplayed or something. It's usually because this happens (which happened two days ago): I pfr AK and triple on AQ587 and lose to 77.

I'm a nit from utg and my opening range is typically TT+/ATs+/AQo+. Yet despite this every time I open utg I can expect four callers. So clearly no one cares much about hand reading or ranges at this level (which makes it juicy of course).

I'm open to being told that Q9s is a standard raise in LP over several limpers but I don't necessarily think the main reason is to widen my range and make it more difficult for my opponents to read my hand.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-08-2017 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Not sure I totally agree with your first sentence however. From what I've seen the majority of 8/16 players tend to be first level thinkers in that they don't care about reading hands...they just care about what they have and trying to make their draw or get to SD with bottom pair.
It sounds to me like you have found a very soft 8/16 game. Wish the games here were like that.
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote
08-08-2017 , 11:41 PM
Hand 1 bet/fold but if you dislike folding sets I think it is fine to check .

Hand 2 easy bet
8/16 - two hands. VB river? Quote

      
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