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Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan
casino. V in button is a tight player preflop - seen him limpcall 88 and AQ.
These are evidence of passive, not tight. I assume he's also tight.
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I was actually surprised the villain 3! - I'd have thought he'd be the type of villain who would only do this with 2 pair or better, but there is no way this villain 4-bet 99, 88 or 98 - no way. I don't even think this guy would 4-bet JJ.
So you have two pieces of evidence. Your preflop read that he has QQ+. Your postflop read that he has 2 pair or better. It means either one of those reads should be "most of the time" or "some of the time" or he's playing the hand out of character.
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I bet, V raises. This did give me pause, don't get me wrong - I'd be very surprised if this villain would go this crazy with one pair, especially considering I 3-bet him pre - is he even thinking about MY range??? What does he think *I'm* putting in so many bets with? But no, I made a read and I'm sticking to my read. I 3-bet, he 4-bets, I call.
The general rule is that early action means less than late action. So preflop < flop < turn. So your read on his preflop play should matter less to you than his turn action. You think he's really passive post flop but puts in 4 bets flop and turn? I don't care if the river is a 5 or an offsuit 2, I'm not excited about multiple river bets going in. Starting to think 99 and 76s might be on the menu more than 0%
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I decide to check-call. QQ is half the range I put him on. If he 2-outered me, that's poker - I shoveled money into the pot while I was ahead and that's all I can do.
I'm not there and don't have your exact read. At some point, he said he can beat AA. Pot is > 20BB, so totally willing to pay off. Cap two streets and want to put in more on the river? That's crazy.
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If this one of the rare hands where he'd actually go nuts with 99 or 88, that's poker. If he had KK himself and I just leveled myself out of a few more BB, that's poker.
If by going nuts with 99 you mean playing it correctly, then sure. If he had 88, maybe he has a set of rules where he wanted to limp it the time you saw it limped and he now plays it pretty OK.
Also, there is one combo of AA left for him to have. Sure it happens rarely that he has you beat. The villain happily putting in 8 bets with joy? Seems to indicate that something rare happened.
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Originally Posted by mongidig
I may be reading this wrong but their seems to be a disconnect here. I'm not buying the villian could only have KKs or QQs. Even if he does, I'm not buying he would go 4 bets with it on the turn. How many hours have you played woth this guy? There's practically nobody I would ever say "never" would do this or that. There is just way to small of a sample size in live poker.
I would just bet/call the turn. I think he has a set or the other AA's. Who 4 bets the turn with an overpair at 4/8? People don't even 3 bet sets sometimes.
As played, bet/ call seems horrific on the river. I just check/call.
+1
Maybe people do, but passive players tend not to. With you that our hero seems to have played quite differently than his own reads.