SnG Luck Analyzer (Beta) - Page 3 - Poker Software -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Looks like a very nice program, iv been waiting for something like this for a while!

Im trying to figure out what the graphs mean thou:

All three of the lines (Luck, Actual and Expected) trend downwards below zero, with Green(Luck) up the top, then Blue(Expected) then Red(Actual).

It says my luck is -564.2% and Bucks -1117.12$

This is a sample of about 1200 $22+2 sngs where i'v run at a little over 5%

Does this mean im running at above / below expectation and is there anything else i can glean from it?

Cheers!

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01-16-2008 , 12:31 PM

#53

AmorJogo

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodypull

No, not yet.

I forgot to mention: It only works for 9-player SnGs so far.

But HU or 6-handed tables can be added if people are intereseted.

I'd love this program i it would work for HU SNG's !

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01-16-2008 , 12:32 PM

#54

Slim Pickens

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImsaKidd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pickens

[*]2) Someone is all-in but there is no showdown.
2 includes all your standard push/fold hands that, unless someone calls, you can only quantify based on a potential calling range. The only luck involved is whether or not your opponent(s) have hands within that calling range. Again, this isn't captured and would be very hard to do.

You just get a semi decent sample size and their ranges of calling hands even out.

I'm still not sure what you are trying to say. Maybe I'm being dense.

If you're talking about adding in the equity a player gains/loses in non-showdown hands in an attempt to get a good SNG player's expectation line closer to it's real value, then yeah I think that's probably a good idea. It would be useful for game analysis but doesn't really quantify the luck involved in non-showdown hands. If you're talking about trying to quantify the luck involved in showdown hands, I don't really that's possible.

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01-16-2008 , 12:37 PM

#55

Slim Pickens

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AmorJogo

I'd love this program i it would work for HU SNG's !

If I remember anything about the ICM it should work for HU SNGs as long as it can parse the hand history. The "bucks" will be a little screwed up but the "luck" amount should be consistently off by a factor of 5 because it will just be using 50/30 as the 1st/2nd payout instead of 100/0. You might even be able to change the hand history to make it look like a 9-player and have it work with the current version. It loaded all my 6-max hands just fine.

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01-16-2008 , 12:42 PM

#56

AmorJogo

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pickens

Thanks, but adapting the hand history to 'fake' a 9-player table is a bit too much work considering my rather large database

I'll test if it works without adapting it !

Thanks again

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01-16-2008 , 02:10 PM

#57

ImsaKidd

CHOO CHOO

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 20,758

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pickens

Of course there's variance in the results. You cant run it on 10 (or even 50) games and expect accurate results.

I was saying you need to account for actual amount won/lost in non sd (not what *should* have happened).

Ive had like 20k stretches in pokerev where I had negative equity, but im a winner over 450k hands. Swongs are 1 thing.

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01-16-2008 , 02:36 PM

#58

Slim Pickens

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImsaKidd

I was saying you need to account for actual amount won/lost in non sd (not what *should* have happened).

I agree that accounting for the prize pool equity won/lost without showdown would a very valuable game analysis feature.

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01-16-2008 , 02:58 PM

#59

KennyMac

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 25

the link appears to be dead.

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01-16-2008 , 03:12 PM

#60

JoeSchmo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,126

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennyMac

the link appears to be dead.

Scroll down to later in the thread where he hosts an updated version.

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01-16-2008 , 03:13 PM

#61

JoeSchmo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,126

Quote:

3) There is an all-in and a showdown, but Hero isn't involved.

Slim, you are a genius. This is definitely a piece of the luck pie and I'm guessing it wouldn't be all that hard to implement it.

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01-17-2008 , 12:11 PM

#62

Bodypull

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 68

I would like to thank everyone who sent me HH-files and helped me finding bugs this way. Thanks for your support!

I have a major change in mind:

What do you guys think if we connect SnGLA directly to the Pokertracker database?

Advantages:

Proven hand-grabber
Support of all major poker sites

Disadvantages:

Pokertracker would be required to run SnGLA
No realtime scanning anymore. SnGLA would be dependent on Pokertrackers import timer

What do you think?

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01-17-2008 , 02:07 PM

#63

Slim Pickens

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodypull

Proven hand-grabber
Support of all major poker sites

Disadvantages:

Pokertracker would be required to run SnGLA
No realtime scanning anymore. SnGLA would be dependent on Pokertrackers import timer

What do you think?

I think SNGLA using the PT database is a good idea. I'd rather you spend your time developing more unique features than re-inventing the wheel. The realtime scanning is a mostly-useless feature anyway. SNGLA has great potential as a legitimate game analysis tool.

Can you make one with a 65/35 two-spot payout?

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01-17-2008 , 02:08 PM

#64

TheNoodleMan

Wet Noodle

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,566

seems like you are begging for a headache considering that PT is about to have a complete overhaul.

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01-17-2008 , 02:17 PM

#65

Slim Pickens

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNoodleMan

seems like you are begging for a headache considering that PT is about to have a complete overhaul.

I'd be worried since the sites love to change their hand histories ever so slightly with each update just to screw with us, that keeping up on all the site HH formats, plus adding all the defunct HH formats, would a bigger headache. I don't actually know a database from a data port, though, so take that for what it's probably worth.

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01-17-2008 , 02:26 PM

#66

JoeSchmo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,126

Seems like using the PT database would be good, especially since that would automatically add support to the other sites.

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01-17-2008 , 02:29 PM

#67

JoeSchmo

adept

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,126

Btw, does it ignore 3-way (or more) allins? I was looking at a hand where I pushed 88 and got called by something like QQ and JJ. When looking at Luck Analyzer, it looks as if it treated the hand as only 88 vs QQ (the QQ called first).

I can send the HH if you want.

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01-17-2008 , 03:12 PM

#68

TheNoodleMan

Wet Noodle

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16,566

Foes anyone ever run hot according to this thing?

The skeptic in me wonders why all of us seem to report that we run badly? Is it just selection bias?

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01-17-2008 , 03:47 PM

#69

Bodypull

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeSchmo

Yes, if more than 2 hands are involved SnGLA ignores the 3rd (or 4th...).

If Hero looses, the winning hand will be set as opponent-hand.

If Hero wins, the hand which lost the most chips will be set as opponent-hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNoodleMan

Foes anyone ever run hot according to this thing?

The skeptic in me wonders why all of us seem to report that we run badly? Is it just selection bias?

Good point. This is something which wonders me too.

Although I have seen very hot streaks, one reason might be, that players tend not to push their VERY strong hands but try to invite action post flop. I'm not quite sure yet, if this distorts the results.

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01-17-2008 , 04:12 PM

#70

Bodypull

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 68

My tests using a direct connection to the MS Access database from Pokertracker are running good and very stable.

Problems I see with Pokertracker (at least at FullTilt):

It doesn't distinguish between STT SnG's and MTT SnG's at all. So if you have MTT SnG's in your database the final results will be slightly distorted since the payout structure differs from the STT ICM. This does not apply to normal MTT's only to MTT SnG's.

Pokertracker does not distinguish between 6-Max and 9-Max tables. This can be fixed by counting the players at the very first hand IF the HH is complete (which will be the case in 99%).

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01-17-2008 , 05:39 PM

#71

Slim Pickens

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodypull

My tests using a direct connection to the MS Access database from Pokertracker are running good and very stable.

Problems I see with Pokertracker (at least at FullTilt):

It doesn't distinguish between STT SnG's and MTT SnG's at all. So if you have MTT SnG's in your database the final results will be slightly distorted since the payout structure differs from the STT ICM. This does not apply to normal MTT's only to MTT SnG's.

Pokertracker does not distinguish between 6-Max and 9-Max tables. This can be fixed by counting the players at the very first hand IF the HH is complete (which will be the case in 99%).

I think right now fixing this mixing of formats can be done on the user end as long as we can enter the correct payout structure to use for all of the tournaments that we've loaded. I tend to wipe out the Data folder and start from scratch every time now anyway because something in there keeps crashing it if I don't.

Will the infamous "Full Tilt Poker is incapable of correctly writing the first hand history of any SNG" bug going to be a problem?

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01-17-2008 , 06:06 PM

#72

Bodypull

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pickens

It looks quite good at the moment, I'm able to get the correct table sizes.

BTW: you shoudn't delete the PFMU.dat - this is the precalculated Preflop Matchup Table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim Pickens

Will the infamous "Full Tilt Poker is incapable of correctly writing the first hand history of any SNG" bug going to be a problem?

Don't think so. So far I scanned ~3GB MS Access databases (mostly FT and some Party tourneys) without getting wrong results.

My problem is that I don't have much data from Pokerstars and other sites. I could either release a untested version for these sites or ask people for some HH.

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01-17-2008 , 07:41 PM

#73

Slim Pickens

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodypull

BTW: you shoudn't delete the PFMU.dat - this is the precalculated Preflop Matchup Table.

I actually just copied the entire data folder to another location after then install. Then when I want to start with a clean program, I just copy back to the folder where the software is installed and overwrite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodypull

I'm able to get the correct table sizes.

Cool. There are at least 3 different payout structure that I know of for 6-max. FT and Stars use 65/35. Party used to use 60/40. I think UB/AP use 70/30.

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01-18-2008 , 12:55 AM

#74

Jehaim

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,055

Quote

01-19-2008 , 01:28 PM

#75

Bodypull

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 68

New release - SnG Luck Analyzer v0.1.3 BETA

This version requires a Pokertracker database.

Changes:

Direct connection to Pokertracker MS Access database (MDB)
Supports all poker sites which are supported by Pokertracker (only FullTilt and Party tested though)
Supports 10-Max SnG's
Supports 9-Max SnG's
Supports 6-Max SnG's
Supports 5-Max SnG's (untested)
Supports HU SnG's (untested)

SnG Luck Analyzer v0.1.3

There is also a quick-start guide on this page and I'm developing a small FAQ section.

Most sites and some of the new features are not fully tested yet, so please don't hang me if you find some bugs. They have to be expected, it's a beta version and a new approach fetching the data from Pokertracker.

I hope it will be usefull even at it's very early stage though.

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