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Old 07-18-2010, 08:02 PM   #1
plexiq
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HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

First beta version of a new web ICM calculator is available here:
http://beta.holdemresources.net/webcalc

Changelogs and additional information will be posted here:
http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/beta.html


Features of initial beta release:
  • ICM Nash calculations without handranking restrictions
  • Graphic display of calculated ranges
  • Show EV for specific hands

Working on:
  • Improving stability and performance(!)
  • GUI tweaking
  • Allowing manual overrides of ranges to incorporate reads into the calculation
  • Additional user control over the fictitious play calculations

Please understand that the new calculator is still in early beta stage. In the very likely case you experience bugs, please post a detailed description here. General feedback and suggestions are also appreciated.

The current version is restricted to maximum 6 players, the final version will allow 9 (or 10) players.

Screenshot of the range-display:
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:09 AM   #2
Orick
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

It look very nice, and hugely improved over the current version. I'm looking forward to it being finished.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:24 PM   #3
Hank Moody's Brain
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Excellent. I use your nash calculator all the time, nice to see an evan better version. And thanks for keeping it free.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:28 PM   #4
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

btw

Hand J5s
Played 10%
EV -0.0003892913518939167

What does the played 10% mean? Does it mean as part of a perfect nash range I should play this hand 10% of the time?
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:56 PM   #5
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Yes, the calculator allows mixed strategies now.

With some more iterations the mixed hands converge to ~0EV, as it should be. But even after just 300 iters, ranges look pretty close to optimal.

Btw I would really appreciate some feedback regarding GUI responsiveness, especially from users with slower connections.
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:19 PM   #6
VulgarDisplayPoker
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

So happy I found the new beta

I read that "The current version is restricted to maximum 6 players, the final version will allow 9 (or 10) players."

Any chance of it allowing more that 10 players? and more than the old 5 pay structures, I'm not looking for a ton of players, 15~18, and maybe 10 pay structures?

thanks for sharing!
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Old 07-22-2010, 12:53 AM   #7
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

this is pretty sexy. GUI responsiveness is just fine for me, but i couldn't display a different player's range. say i entered stacks for 4 players..i could only view the range for the CO and not the others
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Old 07-22-2010, 04:44 AM   #8
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

@VulgarDisplayPoker:
If you have multiple tables left, you can get a good approximation by choosing a structure with similar bubble factor and then simply calculating with the players at your own table. Nash calculations will not support more than 1 table.

I guess you only want the ICM equities in these spots anyway? (ie, no nash ranges)

@GoldnEagl:
I assume you selected a different range in the range-tree on the left, but after hitting "Display Range" nothing changed. Is that correct?
Were you able to reproduce this after refreshing the page, or was this just a 1-time error?
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:43 AM   #9
GoldnEagl
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexiq View Post
@GoldnEagl:
I assume you selected a different range in the range-tree on the left, but after hitting "Display Range" nothing changed. Is that correct?
Were you able to reproduce this after refreshing the page, or was this just a 1-time error?
correct, but it appears to be just a one-time error. i can't reproduce it..false alarm
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Old 07-22-2010, 01:14 PM   #10
dfan
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Really nice. But a suggestion for the interface - if possible keep the hand setup persistent rather than reverting to defaults. Lets say I want to see the push ranges for different stack sizes (10bb, 15bb, 20bb, ...) for a payout structure other than the default. With your current setup each time I change the stack size I have to re-enter the payout structure. Similarly if I want to run various payout structures with a constant stack size I can't do that now without re-entering all the stacks sizes each time I re-run the analysis.

Also consider reducing the number of clicks to run say a bb analysis. In the current setup I have to click the expand button on the sb, then click the bb, then click Display range. Why not have both sb and bb buttons visible all of the time and when either is clicked the appropriate calc is done? Three clicks become one. Improvements like this make the tool much more user friendly and efficient if you want to use it to run through a number of similar scenarios.

BTW, speed was excellent on my machine. But then I have an I-7 processor and 8GB memory so not much of a test I guess!
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:53 AM   #11
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

^

New hand dialog remembers previously entered settings now.

About range displays w/o extra clicking: Need to do some testing first, there are potential performance issues with this. But i think it would indeed improve GUI efficiency.
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:45 AM   #12
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Cool ... add a HH import feature and you'll have pwnd SnGWizzard totally
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:32 AM   #13
Jean
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

When locking one range in a complex situation (6-handed, 5 payoffs) and recalculing the NE, it stops at 1 iteration. Maybe I'm out of bounds here?

http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/be...00&s7=&s8=&s9=
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:45 AM   #14
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Thanks for reporting this, i can reproduce the error. I'll let you know when it's fixed.

Edit: This seems to be caused by 0% calling ranges coming up at some point during the calculation.

Last edited by plexiq; 08-05-2010 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 08-05-2010, 10:20 AM   #15
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Ok, the hand no longer causes errors.

But this stack-setup/payout structure is close to worst case for all the heuristic used. This hand would need a lot more than 500 Iterations to find a good NE solution. I am working on improving NE-calculation for these exotic hand setups, but that will take a while.
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:05 PM   #16
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Ok, cool, thanks!

Oh yes, these "short stacks + huge bubble" spots are already the bad cases for ICM anyway.

Also, I support the fact that it'd be great to have a better way to change ranges than just clicking every single possible hand. When you want to compare "push 0%" with "push 100%" it's quite a pain to have to perform 169 clicks
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:08 PM   #17
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Oh, and also the links seem to link to the standard NE computation, it'd be cool to be able to link a computation with overridden ranges.
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:36 AM   #18
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Updated the GUI so you can change ranges by simply entering the desired %. The range is constructed as the top x% of hands, sorted by EV.

About linking edited ranges: This will have to wait for a while, but it's likely coming at some point.
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Old 08-08-2010, 10:39 AM   #19
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

GUI suggestion:
Add CSS property in range selection table:

webcalculator-div.css

.hands {
cursor: pointer;
cursor: hand;
}

This way, selecting hands will be much easier

PS. Great tool, using it a lot.
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Old 08-08-2010, 09:10 PM   #20
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

any way i could just paste an HH into it rather than having to type out all the info?
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:27 AM   #21
RuneSky
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Any chance of getting the calculations to run client side to speed them up?
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:18 AM   #22
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Concerning calculations on client side:
Zero chance of running the calculations as Javascript on the client, that would be awfully slow and it takes loads of ram. Fwiw, the server version is considerably faster than running the calculations on my local pc/laptop.

HH parser:
On top of my todo list.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:35 AM   #23
Jean
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexiq View Post
HH parser:
On top of my todo list.
sounds great

Another very minor point: being able to output ranges compatible with pokerstove would be very convenient.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:29 AM   #24
BradleyT
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

On the overview page add a line to show the sum of the chips entered.

Level: 100/200/0
Structure: 0.5,0.3,0.2
Players: 4

Chips: 13500
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:44 PM   #25
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Re: HoldemResources.net: Beta/Feedback

+1 on allowing ten players, and up to 10 payouts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulgarDisplayPoker View Post
10 players? and more than the old 5 pay structures, I'm not looking for a ton of players, 15~18, and maybe 10 pay structures?
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