Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Commercial Software Discussion of commercial gambling-related / poker software & commercial graphics modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-06-2017, 04:24 PM   #201
rj999
journeyman
 
rj999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Re: PokerCruncher Mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunraid View Post
...
This is not me backtracking, this is reality, I've dealt with very similar things in my own job.
I agree, this is reality unfortunately, where people make up their own (wrong) facts with zero due diligence and try to use mislead tactics to try to cause a change they're interested in.

I wasn't irritated by your color-code-cells suggestion, in fact I love getting suggestions as many suggestions over the years on 2p2 have improved this program in all its versions. See the PokerCruncher threads and the full consideration I give each suggestion, including yours.

What I was irritated by was at the end of your suggestion when you said:

>>> pokerranger have it, and it's great

Then I did due diligence on my side and looked at PokerRanger's online docs and screenshots (I don't have Windows-PC) and saw that it doesn't have this feature as far as I can see (o.w. I've asked you multiple times to show to me that it does have it; no response from you on this). I also asked you if it has %age weights in ranges; no response from you on this.

You said "it's great". To me when people say something's "great" e.g. "that restaurant's apple pie is great", it means you've tried the apple pie. Or if you haven't, you are very darn sure that it's great that you're willing to put your word on it. In contrast, you have never run PokerRanger, you told us later.

Your wrong facts and misrepresentation looked like mislead tactics to me which put a credibility question mark in my mind regarding you. So we got off on the wrong foot and are prob. still there.
rj999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 05:45 PM   #202
mrfunnywobbl
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 184
Re: PokerCruncher Mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by rj999 View Post
>>> Can you build ranges and then save them?

Of course. This and all features are listed on this app's App Store page and tutorial webpage (link given last time). Also watch the first 20 mins. of the video tutorial at the top of the tutorial webpage (made by an independent poker pro/coach, without me even requesting/communicating beforehand). Rather than just taking it from me (the "salesman"? : )), I think the ball is in your court to take a look at this program's features and dig down on your side.

>>> I imagine it shows you combos and everything

Yes. Combos, and card and range removal effects, are a big focus of this program. The screenshots and video and some of the tutorial sections e.g. "View Hand Combo Counts ..." should give an idea.

>>> you can divide up hands into like these 25 are bluffs, these 25 combos are value etc.

Yes. See the tutorial section "Managing Subranges And Range Refinements". This is also what "gunraid" and I have been discussing/arguing about over the last couple of pages on this thread.

The tutorial is too big to digest in one sitting. I suggest looking at just the table of contents to start out to get the lay of the land.

>>> I've never used one of these complex equity calculators so I am unsure.

That means you've never used PokerStove also? If you've never used a range program before then there will be a learning curve but there are videos out there e.g. on YouTube, or this app's tutorial video, that can get you going.

>>> Also, what are the big differences between the one under $10 and the $54. Do I need the expensive one for nl2? Can I pay the diff if i need the more expensive one later?

These sounds like the Mac versions, Basic and Expert. Basic doesn't have hand ranges, so on Mac for serious hand analysis you'll want the Expert version.

Re. $54,
Whoa, there must be some serious currency exchanges rates at work here. In USD, the Expert version has ranged from $30 to $40 in the last year. The price has gone up over the years as this program has gotten better and better.

Re. paying the diff,
No, can't pay the diff, no in-app upgrade path; these are separate apps. It's a one-time charge for however long you have a Mac; we don't put recurring in-app fees on you. To upgrade, what you can do is return/refund one and then buy the other one. For this you'll need to go through the Apple App Store, as they handle purchase orders, credit cards, etc., not me.

Best of luck in your investigations. Hope to see you land in the PokerCruncher world someday. -RJ
Yes, never used pokerstove or equilab or flopzilla or anything. Nothing ive found works for mac but this and even if it did ive been hesitant to spend ~30-~60 until now cause wasnt sure how much i wanted to grind. I'll watch the tutorial and then if I like it i'll buy on mac, and figure out how to use. Probably will ask tons of dumb questions here if I buy it. How big is it to download? Also, is it intensive on CPU to run? I'm only on a 2013 Macbook Air, and it doesn't have a ton of processing power.
mrfunnywobbl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2017, 07:33 PM   #203
rj999
journeyman
 
rj999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Re: PokerCruncher Mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfunnywobbl View Post
Yes, never used pokerstove or equilab or flopzilla or anything. Nothing ive found works for mac but this and even if it did ive been hesitant to spend ~30-~60 until now cause wasnt sure how much i wanted to grind. I'll watch the tutorial and then if I like it i'll buy on mac, and figure out how to use. Probably will ask tons of dumb questions here if I buy it. How big is it to download? Also, is it intensive on CPU to run? I'm only on a 2013 Macbook Air, and it doesn't have a ton of processing power.
>>> How big is it to download?

Look in Mac App Store on your Mac, tells you there, 2.0MB. Pretty compact by today's bloated standards.

>>> Also, is it intensive on CPU to run?

No. Unless you're running continuous infinite Monte Carlo simulations. Most calcs take just a few seconds to converge.

>>> I'm only on a 2013 Macbook Air, and it doesn't have a ton of processing power.

Should be fine. You need macOS 10.9 or later.
rj999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 01:59 AM   #204
gunraid
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 10
Re: PokerCruncher Mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by rj999 View Post
I agree, this is reality unfortunately, where people make up their own (wrong) facts with zero due diligence and try to use mislead tactics to try to cause a change they're interested in.

I wasn't irritated by your color-code-cells suggestion, in fact I love getting suggestions as many suggestions over the years on 2p2 have improved this program in all its versions. See the PokerCruncher threads and the full consideration I give each suggestion, including yours.

What I was irritated by was at the end of your suggestion when you said:

>>> pokerranger have it, and it's great

Then I did due diligence on my side and looked at PokerRanger's online docs and screenshots (I don't have Windows-PC) and saw that it doesn't have this feature as far as I can see (o.w. I've asked you multiple times to show to me that it does have it; no response from you on this). I also asked you if it has %age weights in ranges; no response from you on this.

You said "it's great". To me when people say something's "great" e.g. "that restaurant's apple pie is great", it means you've tried the apple pie. Or if you haven't, you are very darn sure that it's great that you're willing to put your word on it. In contrast, you have never run PokerRanger, you told us later.

Your wrong facts and misrepresentation looked like mislead tactics to me which put a credibility question mark in my mind regarding you. So we got off on the wrong foot and are prob. still there.
So you did your due dilligence and I did mine. I've asked PokerRanger users if it is possible to color code, and I've received the answer back yesterday from two users that it is possible. I also provided information yesterday that it also appears possible in Power Equilab, also information given to me by a user, which I asked someone to confirm. I have used neither program myself, as I don't have a pc. What I did manage to get a hold of is a screenshot from Power Equilab, where you can see the color coding of a range. This is just information that I put out there in case you would be interested in checking, since these programs seem to be in the same realm as to what PokerCruncher is doing.

You seem to make it a point though that I was trying to mislead you purpously, which I was not. I told you in my second or third post that it was an assumption I made. That's on me, and I've admitted as much.
On multiple occasions, I've complimented you for being open to dialogue etc..
This is now your fourth or fifth post where you clearly show your sarcasm/irritation about what I wrote. I thought the whole point was to offer suggestions, and talk about it back and forth?
Look, this is a forum, people or trying to have a conversation through a medium which allows for plenty of interpretation. I'm about 99,99% sure that if we would have talked face to face it wouldn't have been nearly as a big of a deal as what you're making of this.

Now here's the thing, I've tried to contribute to the discussion by offering a suggestion. And tried to follow up with providing additional info, by asking around. What you do with that is up to you.

So when you're implying that I'm making up my own wrong facts with zero due dilligence and tyring to use mislead tactics to try to cause a change that I'm interested in, you couldn't be further from the truth.
To me it seems like you're going out of your way to try to discredit me, and blowing things way out of proportion, and thereby missing the message, but that's just my point of view.

Last edited by gunraid; 05-07-2017 at 02:14 AM.
gunraid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 12:36 PM   #205
rj999
journeyman
 
rj999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Re: PokerCruncher Mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunraid View Post
So you did your due dilligence and I did mine. I've asked PokerRanger users if it is possible to color code, and I've received the answer back yesterday from two users that it is possible. I also provided information yesterday that it also appears possible in Power Equilab, also information given to me by a user, which I asked someone to confirm. I have used neither program myself, as I don't have a pc. What I did manage to get a hold of is a screenshot from Power Equilab, where you can see the color coding of a range. This is just information that I put out there in case you would be interested in checking, since these programs seem to be in the same realm as to what PokerCruncher is doing.

You seem to make it a point though that I was trying to mislead you purpously, which I was not. I told you in my second or third post that it was an assumption I made. That's on me, and I've admitted as much.
On multiple occasions, I've complimented you for being open to dialogue etc..
This is now your fourth or fifth post where you clearly show your sarcasm/irritation about what I wrote. I thought the whole point was to offer suggestions, and talk about it back and forth?
Look, this is a forum, people or trying to have a conversation through a medium which allows for plenty of interpretation. I'm about 99,99% sure that if we would have talked face to face it wouldn't have been nearly as a big of a deal as what you're making of this.

Now here's the thing, I've tried to contribute to the discussion by offering a suggestion. And tried to follow up with providing additional info, by asking around. What you do with that is up to you.

So when you're implying that I'm making up my own wrong facts with zero due dilligence and tyring to use mislead tactics to try to cause a change that I'm interested in, you couldn't be further from the truth.
To me it seems like you're going out of your way to try to discredit me, and blowing things way out of proportion, and thereby missing the message, but that's just my point of view.
>>> So you did your due dilligence and I did mine.

Well, initially you did zero due diligence and used false made up facts and mislead tactics to try to push your suggestion through ("PokerRanger have it, it's great"). Now you're getting better and are asking around about what these other programs do instead of just guessing / making stuff up yourself, it's an improvement. But you still haven't told me e.g. if these other programs have %age weights in ranges like PokerCruncher-Expert does. This feature affects your color-code-cells suggestion.

>>> That's on me, and I've admitted as much.

Good, progress here, looks like you're taking responsibility for your initial made up facts.

>>> Now here's the thing, I've tried to contribute to the discussion by offering a suggestion. And tried to follow up with providing additional info, by asking around. What you do with that is up to you.

I've done an awful lot with your suggestion already. I've pointed out pros and cons of it in great detail, see my posts #181, #190. In these posts I explained why your suggestion isn't a general enough solution for subranges in general, due to e.g. hand combos spread across multiple subranges, and also because of the %age weights in ranges feature. I also argued why it isn't great aesthetically i.e. color overload and kaleidoscopic effect when go over 10+ colors or even 5+ colors. I'm tired of repeating myself for you.

Now if these other programs you're talking about don't have %age weights in hand ranges for individual cells like PokerCruncher-Expert does, then maybe color-code-cells is a tenable feature in those programs. But it would't be in PokerCruncher-Expert. But all such programs have hand combos, so I can't see it working well in those programs on the flop/turn/river where suits and combos get involved due to flushes and flush draws. I've explained this before in my previous posts.

>>> So when you're implying that I'm making up my own wrong facts with zero due dilligence and tyring to use mislead tactics to try to cause a change that I'm interested in, you couldn't be further from the truth.

This is more misdirection from you. I am stating the facts; you used false made up facts with zero due diligence in your original post on this and mislead tactics ("it's great" - when you said this you had never even run that program).

Many dozens of people on 2p2 have made suggestions on PokerCruncher over the years on these threads. You're the first person I've run into credibility issues with, and feel that I can't "work well with".

I think a good solution for you, if you really like the color code cells feature, is to switch to one of those programs.

In PokerCruncher-Expert, I've already explained why the current solution is better and more general (save into the 100 quick-slots). And as I've already said there's a more complex potential layering approach I'll think about in the future.

Last edited by rj999; 05-07-2017 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Minor rewording, no real content change
rj999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2017, 04:40 AM   #206
gunraid
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 10
Re: PokerCruncher Mac

this is my last post to this cause this is getting ridiculous

I said in my originial post that the color coding feature was great, because that is what I was looking for, and that programs like PokerRanger have it. As it turns out they do have it. So I didn't make up anything there. I didn't just grab this out of thin air, it was based on my training site. I never said I used the program myself.
YOU deducted that from my statement.
For the ... time, I asked about color coding, because I didn't know any other way that was handy to check ranges IN game. I understand that equity calculations are done off table after you play. And that therefore these two features may not be compatible in one program. That's all good. I even asked if someone knew of another program that maybe had this feature, which is when your first sarcastic comment started.

Fyi for this feature I have found another tool, called Range Manager, which does just this, and nothing more.
I came into this discussion with a constructive attitude. I haven't asked about the %age weight feature in these other programs, and quite frankly I won't, because I'm sick and tired of your condescending tone on here. You keep making statements about me that I make stuff up, that I'm trying to mislead etc... You know nothing about me, and you base all of that on one little sentence. Talk about not doing your due diligence....
Get over it.

You've built a good program, but your communication skills with your customers need some work
gunraid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2017, 05:14 AM   #207
rj999
journeyman
 
rj999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Re: PokerCruncher Mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunraid View Post
this is my last post to this cause this is getting ridiculous

I said in my originial post that the color coding feature was great, because that is what I was looking for, and that programs like PokerRanger have it. As it turns out they do have it. So I didn't make up anything there. I didn't just grab this out of thin air, it was based on my training site. I never said I used the program myself.
YOU deducted that from my statement.
For the ... time, I asked about color coding, because I didn't know any other way that was handy to check ranges IN game. I understand that equity calculations are done off table after you play. And that therefore these two features may not be compatible in one program. That's all good. I even asked if someone knew of another program that maybe had this feature, which is when your first sarcastic comment started.

Fyi for this feature I have found another tool, called Range Manager, which does just this, and nothing more.
I came into this discussion with a constructive attitude. I haven't asked about the %age weight feature in these other programs, and quite frankly I won't, because I'm sick and tired of your condescending tone on here. You keep making statements about me that I make stuff up, that I'm trying to mislead etc... You know nothing about me, and you base all of that on one little sentence. Talk about not doing your due diligence....
Get over it.

You've built a good program, but your communication skills with your customers need some work
Goodbye.
Good luck.
rj999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 06:28 PM   #208
rj999
journeyman
 
rj999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Re: PokerCruncher Mac

App improvements continue, version 10.5.1 released today:

1) Range Heat Map: Add the ability to set a custom value for Breakeven Equity.
2) Filter Hand Range operation: Add the ability to filter a hand range on equity.

1) was suggested to me recently in email offline (thanks M.K.). His point was that on the river sometimes we have really good odds on the final call e.g. 3:1 odds so all we need is 25% equity to make the call (that's our breakeven equity). But, say it's heads up, the range heat map defaults to 50% as breakeven equity (or to 33% if it's 3-way), so the range heat map's colors (red -> yellow -> green) are skewed too far "right". This change lets us adjust the breakeven equity freely. I don't want this program to get too much into pot odds, implied odds, etc. as that's a whole extra complex decision layer on top, and this is an equity calculator, but this addition looked compact and clean enough.

2) was suggested in this app's iPhone thread a long time ago by "AvoidMe?" but I had considered it a dangerous feature if it's not used right, so didn't add it. But I decided the Mac-Expert version of this app should have this feature, with a usage warning note in the program. Basically, I feel "filter range on equity" is appropriate only for e.g. range vs. range scenarios or for studying GTO play etc., and not for more real life situations like specific hand vs. range (where the existing "filter range on hand types (stats)" operation is more appropriate). But since this is the Expert version of this program, I decided to add "filter range on equity" for when we want to do more theoretical type range reductions in e.g. range vs. range scenarios.
rj999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 01:01 AM   #209
rj999
journeyman
 
rj999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 397
Re: PokerCruncher Mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezzir View Post
Is there an undo button?
I keep losing ranges when I click a card for the flop but am still on a player's hand range.
I addressed the good suggestion above some months ago by adding an "Undo/Redo Hand Range Edit" menu command, but now I decided to implement something on a wider/bigger scale along these lines of remembering data ...

Today update V.10.6.1 went live with feature "Calc'ed Scenarios History".

* A history of the last 50 calc'ed scenarios is automatically saved app-internally.

* The "File" menu --> "Load Previous Calc'ed Scenario" and "Load Next Calc'ed Scenario" menu buttons let you navigate backwards and forwards in the scenario history.

* There are keyboard shortcuts for quick navigation:

Cmd-Option-LeftArrow ==> Load Previous Calc'ed Scenario (50 levels)
Cmd-Option-RightArrow ==> Load Next Calc'ed Scenario (50 levels)

So now a ton of scenario input data is auto-remembered, with a calc operation being the "save" trigger.

E.g. we can use this history feature to go backwards and forwards to different points/streets of a hand that we’re analyzing, or to different scenarios that we calc’ed a while ago.

Last edited by rj999; 06-05-2017 at 01:03 AM. Reason: Minor formatting changes
rj999 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online