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Old 07-07-2009, 04:26 PM   #76
Inthegrid
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Hey rj999, here's some positive feedback - was just going over a hand from my HEM database working out how much I would need to raise on the flop to be able to call a 3bet shove with the NFD but then wanted to work out what would happen if say my flop check raise with NFD was just called and I'm now OOP on the turn. Suddenly realised that Pokerstove can't do the deal to turn feature I needed so fired up your app and got what I was looking for! Keep up the good work, your app makes dull train journeys fly by!
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Old 07-08-2009, 07:35 PM   #77
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inthegrid View Post
Hey rj999, here's some positive feedback - was just going over a hand from my HEM database working out how much I would need to raise on the flop to be able to call a 3bet shove with the NFD but then wanted to work out what would happen if say my flop check raise with NFD was just called and I'm now OOP on the turn. Suddenly realised that Pokerstove can't do the deal to turn feature I needed so fired up your app and got what I was looking for! Keep up the good work, your app makes dull train journeys fly by!
Thanks Inthegrid for writing! I'm glad that the app is being useful.

I too had the need for using Deal-To Flop/Turn yesterday. I flopped an Ace high flush, in a preflop raised pot (but to only 3x the BB), five players saw the flop. Turns out someone flopped a straight flush, and a third player flopped a King high flush, nice cooler for the two of us, rebuy! Anyway was curious how often I'd run up against that on that board, pic attached.

Assuming random cards for the other 4 players, 0.3% of the time. Assuming top 50% hands for the other players (it was a preflop raised pot so all the hands ought to be above average), 0.9% of the time. This is Monte Carlo so there's a margin of error here, but does give an idea.

All of the recent updates to all 4 apps have gone live now. Future update plans - am planning a V.2.6 of PokerCruncher, about 2 months out. Features so far - a dedicated dead cards screen. Right now you can model dead cards by assigning them to a player and using Menu->FoldSelectedPlayer but prob. should have a dedicated full screen for completeness.

Thanks for using the app guys and your feedback. -RJ

Against 4 random hands:


Against 4 top 50% hands:
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:47 AM   #78
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Hey rj999, one thing that would make entering hands into pokercruncher quicker for me is if the suits used the four colour as found in HEM / stove. This is for sure me being lazy / slow but I would find it helpful!
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Old 07-12-2009, 06:11 PM   #79
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

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Originally Posted by Inthegrid View Post
Hey rj999, one thing that would make entering hands into pokercruncher quicker for me is if the suits used the four colour as found in HEM / stove. This is for sure me being lazy / slow but I would find it helpful!
Thanks, suggestion is noted for an update version. A related thing I should have done from the start is use the same suit ordering as PokerStove/etc. that is Club first instead of Spade first, in the main screen and in the 4x4 Suits grid in the hand range screen (also adding this to the update list). Maybe just this change (the ordering) will be enough.

One concern I have in going to 4 colors for the suits is that I think this works well in Stove because Stove doesn't show full-size cards (text-only) and uses the 4 colors for just the suit icons. I can't think of any apps that use 4 colors for full-size cards; 2-color black and red looks to be the standard look. Maybe I can use 4 colors in the 4x4 Suits grid in the hand range screen but stay with 2 colors for the full-size cards; would be inconsistent; will think about it.

Also currently the app is using 3 colors for the equity/win/loss stats (green, red, yellow) so using 4 colors in the full-size cards may give a color overload look, but I should try a screen mockup before saying this.

Will think about it. Right now still focusing on new features; V.2.6 will have a full dead cards feature and am planning will go live in about a month. Thanks, -RJ
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:56 AM   #80
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

any update on BB storm ?
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:46 PM   #81
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

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Originally Posted by bnaydc View Post
any update on BB storm ?
The update is that it's been a dismal failure. The iPhone has outsold the Storm almost 10-1 since it's release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IP...and_references

And that chart ends the quarter before Apple sold 1M units in in the first three days of the 3Gs release in June.

The most money is in the biggest markets, Omaha please.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:15 PM   #82
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Any update on an OS X port? Firing up my VM just to Stove something is kind of a pain..I'd much rather "Crunch" something
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:34 PM   #83
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

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Originally Posted by DesertCat View Post
The update is that it's been a dismal failure. The iPhone has outsold the Storm almost 10-1 since it's release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IP...and_references

And that chart ends the quarter before Apple sold 1M units in in the first three days of the 3Gs release in June.

The most money is in the biggest markets, Omaha please.
Agree on the update; no work started for other platforms. Lack of bandwidth, have to prioritize, and i.m.o. the bang for the buck isn't there in terms of #units if you need one port (and a full UI rewrite) for the BB Storm, another for Android, etc., and testing work on all the various devices, and all of these other units combined prob. won't add up to the #units of iPhone/touch. Better to focus on just iPhone/touch I think.

Same for an OSX port, not started yet (would be easier than other phones but still need a new UI). Thanks for your suggestions guys but fighting some time issues.

Omaha suggestion is noted. For hi/lo Omaha, hand ranges would be novel, I don't know of any calculators that can do this - two ranges per player, one for the hi and one for the lo, using pretty much the existing hand range builder screen.

Also V.2.6 of PokerCruncher has been submitted to Apple on 07/14/09 - ability to mark deck cards dead/live. The last set of updates took 2+ weeks to go live.

Thanks for your suggestions guys, I will try to find bandwidth to work on the next major feature/app. -RJ
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:26 PM   #84
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

I like advanced odds app, though the controls respond sluggishly for some reason.

I also got the odds quizzer app, which is ok. I have the following suggestion: add questions where you are given a hand and some community cards; ask for an estimate of hero's equity versus a villain's range of hands.
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:52 PM   #85
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

yes i also like the oddsteacher and oddsquizzer apps both by OP. worth the few bucks imo
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:34 PM   #86
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uDevil View Post
I like advanced odds app, though the controls respond sluggishly for some reason.

I also got the odds quizzer app, which is ok. I have the following suggestion: add questions where you are given a hand and some community cards; ask for an estimate of hero's equity versus a villain's range of hands.
Thanks uD, 99k for feedback. Any particular controls that are slow or do they all seem slow? What device and OS do you have?

I think the +Player and -Player buttons could be faster. They're kind of slow because they re-layout/re-size the player card fields to make the card sizes adapt to the number of players. I did speed up the +/- buttons a bit a few updates ago but should look at them again.

Re. OddsQuizzer - it does have hand range questions at the bottom - pre-flop and post-flop. 20 hand range questions total right now but I'm open to adding to the set over time.

Also V.2.6 of PokerCruncher went live today - ability to mark deck cards dead/live. Thanks guys. -RJ
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:36 AM   #87
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

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Originally Posted by rj999 View Post
Thanks uD, 99k for feedback. Any particular controls that are slow or do they all seem slow? What device and OS do you have?
I have a 16 GB ipod touch with OS 2.2.1. The delay is most noticeable when I use the slider on the range selection page. It seems to take a while to notice my finger is "there" so if I don't wait for it, it doesn't respond to my dragging motion.

Quote:
Re. OddsQuizzer - it does have hand range questions at the bottom - pre-flop and post-flop. 20 hand range questions total right now but I'm open to adding to the set over time.
Cool, I hadn't gotten that far. I'll try them out.

Very nice work overall.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:33 AM   #88
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uDevil View Post
I have a 16 GB ipod touch with OS 2.2.1. The delay is most noticeable when I use the slider on the range selection page. It seems to take a while to notice my finger is "there" so if I don't wait for it, it doesn't respond to my dragging motion.

Cool, I hadn't gotten that far. I'll try them out.

Very nice work overall.
Thanks uD. The slider is more responsive on iPhone OS 3.0; well worth upgrading. Also the hand range builder screen comes up faster on 3.0.

Thanks for writing. Most of the features in the last 4..5 updates have been driven by this forum's msgs and emails. -RJ
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:48 PM   #89
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...th_iphone.html

Adding in the 5M iPhones sold in Q2, plus another 3M or so ITouches, and the installed base is over 45M units.
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:34 PM   #90
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

(Disclosure: I'm the author of PokerCruncher)

V.2.7 of PokerCruncher just went live with:

Range equity breakdowns: an equity "heat map" and detailed stats. See attached pic.

This feature lets you dig down into a range's overall equity and lets you see the equity of each hand in the range so you can detect useful patterns. PokerStove doesn't do this so I'm happy that PokerCruncher is going beyond PokerStove's hand ranges feature.

The breakdown is shown using a color-coded "equity heat map". If you tap "View Details" you can see the specific equity numbers for each cell and also a %age value for each cell that tells you what %age of the range the cell comprises (taking dead and already assigned cards into account).

Note that due to Monte Carlo (random sampling) simulation, each hand's (grid cell's) equity has a higher variance (margin of error) than the entire range's equity.

Being an advanced odds app, PokerCruncher is fortunate to have many knowledgable and insightful customers such as those on this forum. Similarly this range breakdown feature was suggested via email by customer M.S. (who hasn't posted on this forum), thank you for your suggestions and discussions M.S.! Showing the result as a color coded map instead of as just raw numbers and text was my idea so I'll take a little credit too : ).

I hope everyone finds this feature useful. Thanks for all your feedback. Do send further suggestions/feedback and you can be sure the app will improve in updates based on discussions and collective ideas. Best, -RJ

Range Equity Breakdown Example:
Top50%OfHands vs. Top25%OfHands:
Breakdown of Player 1 (Top50%OfHands):

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Old 08-26-2009, 07:40 AM   #91
I R BABOON
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

I just bought the cruncher app today and did some comparisons to PokerStove and noticed a kinda big difference. I read through the first 3 pages if there might be an explanation then just decided to post.

Can you explain the 7% difference between PS and cruncher (using version 2.7)?
Quote:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

107,852,091 games 26.867 secs 4,014,296 games/sec

Board: Ac 5h 3h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 84.710% 83.93% 00.78% 90519581 843303.50 { As8s }
Hand 1: 15.290% 14.51% 00.78% 15647956 843307.00 { TT+ }

I can live with 1% difference, but this is kinda huge if you ask me.

another one with a whooping 14%! difference
Quote:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

115,540,532 games 29.376 secs 3,933,160 games/sec

Board: Qs Th 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.268% 26.06% 00.21% 30108686 241566.50 { Js8s }
Hand 1: 73.732% 73.52% 00.21% 84950118 241567.00 { QQ+, ATs+, ATo+ }


Second hand has this range selected for player 2 (just to confirm)



I ran both hands multiple times and also used monte carlo in stove.
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:18 AM   #92
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

This is because both scenarios have DealTo=Turn set in PokerCruncher! I just tried both in the just released V.2.7 with DealTo=River and see equity results that are within a few tenths of 1% of PokerStove.

DealTo flop/turn/holecards, and the "S" stats, are additional analysis features that PokerStove and most other odds calcs don't have. We discussed these features a few pages ago. E.g. you can see where 87s would stand against AA if the hand ended at the flop, and see what made hands and draws and combination draws 87s flops and how often.

Thanks for getting the app and for writing a very clear problem description with screenshots, which makes diagnosis faster. I'm not guaranteeing there are 0 bugs in PokerCruncher, but if there are I promise I'll work to fix asap. Do let me know if you see other issues or questions. Hope everyone likes the new RangeBreakdown button. Thx!, -RJ
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:28 AM   #93
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rj999 View Post
This is because both scenarios have DealTo=Turn set in PokerCruncher! I just tried both in the just released V.2.7 with DealTo=River and see equity results that are within a few tenths of 1% of PokerStove.

DealTo flop/turn/holecards, and the "S" stats, are additional analysis features that PokerStove and most other odds calcs don't have. We discussed these features a few pages ago. E.g. you can see where 87s would stand against AA if the hand ended at the flop, and see what made hands and draws and combination draws 87s flops and how often.

Thanks for getting the app and for writing a very clear problem description with screenshots, which makes diagnosis faster. I'm not guaranteeing there are 0 bugs in PokerCruncher, but if there are I promise I'll work to fix asap. Do let me know if you see other issues or questions. Hope everyone likes the new RangeBreakdown button. Thx!, -RJ
I learned a lot from this explanation!
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:33 AM   #94
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

this looks niiiiiiiiiiiice
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:33 PM   #95
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Why was I not informed of this app earlier? Keep up the great work, OP.
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:03 PM   #96
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

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Why was I not informed of this app earlier? Keep up the great work, OP.
... one reason because as just an indep. developer I don't have the bucks for that big banner ad in cardplayer .. that would be nice. So for now just iTunes and word of mouth advertising, so tell your poker friends pls : ).

Thanks for the positive feedback. You bet I'll keep going. Imo PokerCruncher already out-features PokerStove (but is behind in the speed/performance area), and my goal is to make this app the best and most powerful odds app on any platform.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:30 AM   #97
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Thanks for explaining. So far I think it's a great app, but if the Range Breakdown-> View Details would add Flopzilla like output (showing what % of his range is top pair, 2pair etc using combinatorics) I would call it sick!
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:35 AM   #98
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

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Originally Posted by I R BABOON View Post
Thanks for explaining. So far I think it's a great app, but if the Range Breakdown-> View Details would add Flopzilla like output (showing what % of his range is top pair, 2pair etc using combinatorics) I would call it sick!
I think the "S" stats button already shows what you're looking for - hand histograms for each player (whether the player has specific cards or random cards or hand range). And if you set DealTo=flop you also get odds for flopping draws and making top pair or an overpair. Also combination draws (suggested a few updates ago on this thread by DesertCat I believe).

FlopZilla requires all flop cards to be entered but PokerCruncher also allows a blank/random flop so you can see what a given hand range can flop. FlopZilla does break out one pair into top pair, middle pair, etc which PokerCruncher doesn't do yet and has some other nice goodies.

See:

http://www.pokercruncher.com/ipDealToFlopAnalysis.html

for more on Cruncher's stats.

Are these the kind of stats you were looking for? Glad you like the app so far. Let me know what else would improve the app because I'm not stopping at anything short of "sick"! -RJ
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:10 AM   #99
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rj999 View Post
I think the "S" stats button already shows what you're looking for - hand histograms for each player (whether the player has specific cards or random cards or hand range). And if you set DealTo=flop you also get odds for flopping draws and making top pair or an overpair. Also combination draws (suggested a few updates ago on this thread by DesertCat I believe).

FlopZilla requires all flop cards to be entered but PokerCruncher also allows a blank/random flop so you can see what a given hand range can flop. FlopZilla does break out one pair into top pair, middle pair, etc which PokerCruncher doesn't do yet and has some other nice goodies.

See:

http://www.pokercruncher.com/ipDealToFlopAnalysis.html

for more on Cruncher's stats.

Are these the kind of stats you were looking for? Glad you like the app so far. Let me know what else would improve the app because I'm not stopping at anything short of "sick"! -RJ
Ugh, I fail once more in using the proper settings. Yes that's was I was looking for and man this thing is sensitive with all it's options hehe.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:20 AM   #100
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Re: New iPhone app PokerCruncher (hand ranges odds calculator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazarath View Post
Why was I not informed of this app earlier? Keep up the great work, OP.
+1 !!
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