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09-22-2023 , 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungdug
Hi. I purchased the app and have a question
Is there any other way to set weight of the hand in range, other than set up specific suits? (In android app)
No; not in the iPhone, iPad, Android "Advanced" versions of this app.

The Mac "Expert" version has %age weights in hand ranges:

https://www.pokercruncher.com/ipPoke...tsInHandRanges
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01-23-2024 , 06:42 AM
Hi RJ . I'm no expert on pokerCruncher and am wanting to use it to Practise Hand Reading in the same way James Sweeney does with Flopzilla . But I'm not sure how I can move forward to the next street only taking forward Villains Range That He would Have done the previous action with Whilst still leaving the Range there on the Previous street to go back to if Needed.

So for example Villain Bets Range Pre and We have Him on 17%
Flop comes. A 10 5 rainbow and He Bets
We Deduct The Hands he's not Betting with and Only take the ones he is forward to the turn, But We can still go back to the flop to see what he had then .
Turn comes whatever and He Check Calls, We Deduct hands He would have continued betting with and leave the Check call ones to go forward to the river with , But can still go back to Turn to see what Hands He had on that street.
Etc .
I Hope this all Makes sense
Many Thanks
Paul.
Sorry I thought I'd created a thread but seem ti have replied on one of yours.

Last edited by Temple Dog; 01-23-2024 at 06:45 AM. Reason: Missed something
PokerCruncher Quote
01-23-2024 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Temple Dog
Hi RJ . I'm no expert on pokerCruncher and am wanting to use it to Practise Hand Reading in the same way James Sweeney does with Flopzilla . But I'm not sure how I can move forward to the next street only taking forward Villains Range That He would Have done the previous action with Whilst still leaving the Range there on the Previous street to go back to if Needed.

So for example Villain Bets Range Pre and We have Him on 17%
Flop comes. A 10 5 rainbow and He Bets
We Deduct The Hands he's not Betting with and Only take the ones he is forward to the turn, But We can still go back to the flop to see what he had then .
Turn comes whatever and He Check Calls, We Deduct hands He would have continued betting with and leave the Check call ones to go forward to the river with , But can still go back to Turn to see what Hands He had on that street.
Etc .
I Hope this all Makes sense
Many Thanks
Paul.
Sorry I thought I'd created a thread but seem ti have replied on one of yours.
Definitely it makes sense.
To do this in PokerCruncher, use the "quick-saved ranges" slots to store Villain's ranges on each street. You can organize these range slots however you want, but what I do is reserve the first 10 slots for such temporary range work, and I save my range library in the rest of the slots, i.e. slots #11, #12, ... You can name the slots as you want, so for example slot 1 can be named "Villain preflop", slot 2 named "Villain flop", etc., for Villain's ranges street to street.

For your example,
Save Villain's preflop range (17% of hands) into slot 1.
On the flop after you've removed whatever hands are no longer in his range, save the resulting range into slot 2.
Repeat this for turn, river.

Having the street to street ranges saved into the separate range slots lets us go back and forth on the ranges if we want.

This can be done in all versions of PokerCruncher, but it's most easily done in the Mac-Expert version as it's a bigger more powerful program. For example to do the narrowing down of Villain's range street to street, the Mac-Expert version has a "Filter" operation that lets us filter a range based on hand types (you can also filter on equity).

Here's a screenshot from the Mac-Expert version of how the range slots can be named/organized (we're looking at the Range Manager view at the bottom here):

PokerCruncher Quote
01-23-2024 , 02:03 PM
^ Follow-up to my above post,
Here are links to some tutorial sections for this:

Range Manager:
https://www.pokercruncher.com/ipPoke...l#RangeManager

Filter Hand Range:
https://www.pokercruncher.com/ipPoke...ilterHandRange
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03-10-2024 , 02:43 PM
Hey there.

In Poker Cruncher (Mac Expert) is there a way to filter out select hands from a "made hands" filter.

Let's say for example:
  • Villian holds all Pocket Pairs pre-flop
  • The flop comes 8d 9d 3c
  • I think Villian likely folds out [22, 44, 55] but keeps in 66 and 77 for one more street

High card is another good example, I often have scenarios where high card might cover 20 - 30 hole card pairings, but I only want to keep in the higher AX and KX holdings. In that scenario I have to either filter them all out, then manually add back in. Or keep them all in, and manually figure out which are high card only and remove them.

Flush draws are another, perhaps I expect them to continue with nut, 2nd nut and 3rd nut flushes, but fold out weaker combos.

I can do it manually, but it's a bit of a pain having to work through each combo and work out if it hits any other combos that I don't want to. I guess what I want to tell the program is "Filter out 55 as part of the One Pair filter, but keep it in if it hits other selected filters".

Another thing that can be a pain when trying to filter out a specific part of a made hand range is remembering which hands were part of the range.

So I'm just wondering if there is any way to set the filters in such a way to make that happen? Or is there anything that helps towards that kind of need?

I think this is the equivalent functionality in Flopzilla - https://arc.net/l/quote/hpjkgkdq

Last edited by in7inyaxa7en; 03-10-2024 at 02:52 PM.
PokerCruncher Quote
03-10-2024 , 05:39 PM
Here's a current example - if Villain has just check raised Hero on the River, and I think they'd only be doing that with nut flushes, is there a built-in way to remove the non-nut flush hands?

PokerCruncher Quote
03-10-2024 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Temple Dog
Hi RJ . I'm no expert on pokerCruncher and am wanting to use it to Practise Hand Reading in the same way James Sweeney does with Flopzilla . But I'm not sure how I can move forward to the next street only taking forward Villains Range That He would Have done the previous action with Whilst still leaving the Range there on the Previous street to go back to if Needed.

So for example Villain Bets Range Pre and We have Him on 17%
Flop comes. A 10 5 rainbow and He Bets
We Deduct The Hands he's not Betting with and Only take the ones he is forward to the turn, But We can still go back to the flop to see what he had then .
Turn comes whatever and He Check Calls, We Deduct hands He would have continued betting with and leave the Check call ones to go forward to the river with , But can still go back to Turn to see what Hands He had on that street.
Etc .
I Hope this all Makes sense
Many Thanks
Paul.
Sorry I thought I'd created a thread but seem ti have replied on one of yours.

I've found a bit of a hacky way to do this but it works well for me.

Once I've set the pre-flop range, I deal to the flop. I then copy the range string, add a player, paste the range string. Then I Fold the original player to preserve that range. Then I rinse and repeat for the following streets.

By the end I have four "players":
  • Hero (Active)
  • Pre-flop range (Folded)
  • Post-Flop Range (Folded)
  • Post-Turn Range (Folded)
  • River Range (Active)

I guess this might give marginally off results as it potentially does some card removal wizardry, but I doubt it'd be significant enough when working with ranges rather than specifics.

Makes it super easy to click back through the folded players to see what the range was, when certain hands were removed. etc.

PokerCruncher Quote
03-10-2024 , 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by in7inyaxa7en
I've found a bit of a hacky way to do this but it works well for me.

Once I've set the pre-flop range, I deal to the flop. I then copy the range string, add a player, paste the range string. Then I Fold the original player to preserve that range. Then I rinse and repeat for the following streets.

By the end I have four "players":
  • Hero (Active)
  • Pre-flop range (Folded)
  • Post-Flop Range (Folded)
  • Post-Turn Range (Folded)
  • River Range (Active)

I guess this might give marginally off results as it potentially does some card removal wizardry, but I doubt it'd be significant enough when working with ranges rather than specifics.

Makes it super easy to click back through the folded players to see what the range was, when certain hands were removed. etc.

This is kind of hacky because as you said there are card/range removal effects at work even due to players who have folded out of the hand.

A better way to do this is to use the 200 saved range slots to store your temp ranges e.g. ranges from street to street for villain / hero.
Here's a pic on how I organize the first 10 slots:



This is exactly your organization except done in the saved range slots vs. via folded players. You can use the Load/Save pulldown lists at the top of the Range Editor view to do this, or you can use the Range Manager view at the bottom as in the pic as that's usually faster and more convenient.

You can organize these 200 slots any way you want. For example you may want to use slots 11..20 for further range work iterations. And use slots 21..200 for your more permanent saved range library.

I'll get to your other points next ...

Last edited by rj999; 03-10-2024 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Fixed image link
PokerCruncher Quote
03-10-2024 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by in7inyaxa7en
Hey there.

In Poker Cruncher (Mac Expert) is there a way to filter out select hands from a "made hands" filter.

Let's say for example:
  • Villian holds all Pocket Pairs pre-flop
  • The flop comes 8d 9d 3c
  • I think Villian likely folds out [22, 44, 55] but keeps in 66 and 77 for one more street

High card is another good example, I often have scenarios where high card might cover 20 - 30 hole card pairings, but I only want to keep in the higher AX and KX holdings. In that scenario I have to either filter them all out, then manually add back in. Or keep them all in, and manually figure out which are high card only and remove them.

Flush draws are another, perhaps I expect them to continue with nut, 2nd nut and 3rd nut flushes, but fold out weaker combos.

I can do it manually, but it's a bit of a pain having to work through each combo and work out if it hits any other combos that I don't want to. I guess what I want to tell the program is "Filter out 55 as part of the One Pair filter, but keep it in if it hits other selected filters".

Another thing that can be a pain when trying to filter out a specific part of a made hand range is remembering which hands were part of the range.

So I'm just wondering if there is any way to set the filters in such a way to make that happen? Or is there anything that helps towards that kind of need?

I think this is the equivalent functionality in Flopzilla - https://arc.net/l/quote/hpjkgkdq
Distinguishing between {22, 44, 55} and {66, 77} here is kind of delicate, they are all mainly weak pairs on this flop. {66, 77} do have a backdoor straight draw which would be a reason for keeping them. This app does not have a built-in way to make this distinction. But I think I'm ok with this because I don't think we can view any auto filtering operation as giving the exact/final range we want, some additional fixup work by hand is usually needed.

In recent years solvers have shown us that ranges/hands are not as clear cut and off/on as we once thought they were e.g. solvers usually recommend split %age actions with most hands. So what you can do here is use the filter operation to get you most of the way there, and do some removal afterwards e.g. remove 22, 44, 55 entirely, and keep 77, and keep 66 but at a 50% weighting only (use the %age weight feature). Having an auto filtering operation to get us exactly to this point across the board in all situations would be hard imo.

As you do your range work, use the saved range slots to store the original villain range, filtered range, your manual iterations, etc.

Same for Ax Kx etc high cards, I suggest manual fixups.
For flush draws the app does have a "Nut Flush Draw" stat that you can filter on, but not K high, Q high etc. stats, I suggest manual fixups for these.

> Another thing that can be a pain when trying to filter out a specific part of a made hand range is remembering which hands were part of the range.

Using the 200 internal saved range slots will help with this, you can then go back and forth between all versions/iterations of villain's and hero's ranges.
PokerCruncher Quote
03-10-2024 , 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by in7inyaxa7en
Here's a current example - if Villain has just check raised Hero on the River, and I think they'd only be doing that with nut flushes, is there a built-in way to remove the non-nut flush hands?

No, there is no built-in way.
For flush draws the app does have a NutFlushDraw stat. But it doesn't have a NutFlush stat to go along with the Flush stat. Perhaps it should : ), but there's realistic space for only so many stats, and we thought for draws having a NutFlushDraw stat is definitely needed.

Same for the other stats, I guess it would be nice to have a NutStraight stat to go along with the Straight stat, but we just don't have all these stat variations.

Re. the example in your pic, the flush combos and combo counts are shown so it should be easy to count them and make manual deletions/fixups (using the internal saved range slots to save your range work along the way).
PokerCruncher Quote
03-11-2024 , 03:17 PM
Ah nice. Yea I've used those slots for pre-defined ranges e.g. 10% PF Raise range, 20% call range etc. but I'd not used it for saving ranges during a read.
PokerCruncher Quote
03-11-2024 , 03:19 PM
Great, thanks very much for clarifying those points - I've not tried out the weightings so I'll give those a shot as well, they sound interesting.
PokerCruncher Quote
03-11-2024 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by in7inyaxa7en
Ah nice. Yea I've used those slots for pre-defined ranges e.g. 10% PF Raise range, 20% call range etc. but I'd not used it for saving ranges during a read.
Great, also use these slots (RangeManager) for temporary range work. You can name the slots as you want, you can use the first 10 or 20 slots, the last 50, etc. If you organize the slots for your specific workflow, this can speed up your work a lot because after a while you instantly know which slot has what.
PokerCruncher Quote
03-11-2024 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by in7inyaxa7en
Great, thanks very much for clarifying those points - I've not tried out the weightings so I'll give those a shot as well, they sound interesting.
Good, yes do try out the %age weights in ranges. Tutorial section:

https://www.pokercruncher.com/ipPoke...tsInHandRanges

I think they are the way to go, on top of doing a standard filter on a range. Solvers usually give %age weights on hands, hardly ever just 0% 100%, so if we believe solvers are going in the right direction on how to play poker, we should do what the solvers do : ).

So for your first example where you filtered on OnePair, I'd keep all the pairs in the range during the filter operation, then after the filter I'd lower the weight on 66 to say 50%, and lower the weights on 22, 44, 55 to say 25% or even 10%. Any filter operation, no matter how simple or complex the filter is, would either keep or remove 22, 44, 55. But I don't think that's right, because villain prob won't/shouldn't fold 55 on the flop all the time to a flop cbet; he should prob call sometimes o.w. he'd get exploited by high cards AK/AQ/AJ/etc that have missed so far.
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