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Old 06-13-2017, 07:11 PM   #2676
LennieClarke
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Awesome, thanks. Also, any recommendations on specific services that are available to North Americans? Been looking and have no clue what to look for as far as trustworthiness and ability to install pio(I'd assume all would, but it seems like some only allow certain software?)
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Old 06-14-2017, 02:16 AM   #2677
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Awesome, thanks. Also, any recommendations on specific services that are available to North Americans?
Maybe someone could help with that as I am not in North America. The most popular providers among our customers are online.net and ovh.com

Quote:
Been looking and have no clue what to look for as far as trustworthiness and ability to install pio(I'd assume all would, but it seems like some only allow certain software?)
They will not police what you run on the server unless you start a spam campaign using their connection or something like that
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Old 06-14-2017, 06:45 PM   #2678
PTRonFire
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi. Can be made a function to transform an entire file of boards from full tree saves to small tree saves and vice-versa?
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Old 06-15-2017, 03:59 AM   #2679
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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Can be made a function to transform an entire file of boards from full tree saves to small tree saves
I am writing it down and maybe we will add it to the viewer but no promises. You could do it yourself by scripting the solver but it requires some programming.

Quote:
and vice-versa?
Probably not. Recalculating all rivers takes about the same time as solving from scratch so you can just as well do that.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:32 AM   #2680
poker-hero
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

Let's imagine a spot I set in Piosolver.
For example, let's say I 2barrelled and we are playing the River now.

Where can i read the EV of betting my whole range (not just one combo)?
And the EV of checking my whole range?

Given that Piosolver calculates balanced ranges and plays vs a GTO opponent, does this mean that in the long run, for the river spot described previously, the EV of betting and the EV of checking should be the same?

If something is not clear in my question, feel free to ask me or check my other post which is about the same subject :
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15.../#post52386930

ty
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:41 AM   #2681
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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Where can i read the EV of betting my whole range (not just one combo)?
Go to a bet line (by clicking on it in the tree browser at the top) and then click one of those buttons: https://gyazo.com/364e51cf66597b41244e6e50ae1aa3c1

You will see EV after a bet which is the same as EV of a bet.

Quote:
And the EV of checking my whole range?
Same as above.

Notice that this information isn't very helpful. EV of a bet is usually way higher because the betting range is stronger than checking range. I don't think there is any useful information to obtain from EV of an action for the whole range.

Quote:
does this mean that in the long run, for the river spot described previously, the EV of betting and the EV of checking should be the same?
No.
It's only true for hands which mix between checking and betting. Some hands always bet or always check and they have different EV for betting and checking.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:40 AM   #2682
poker-hero
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

ty !
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:57 AM   #2683
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Someone ordered a basic license of Pio today and provided incorrect email address.
As there is no way we can contact a customer without having valid contact details I am making an attempt to bring attention to the order. If you haven't received your license today please contact us using support@piosolver.com email and we will send you the license.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:39 PM   #2684
GreenMachine3
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hello, Ive just bought an OVH dedicated server but am having some trouble finding out how to start using it with PIOsolver... Are there are tutorials, videos or posts anywhere in this thread that can help me?

Thanks
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:17 AM   #2685
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hey.
I have some newbie questions and I would appreciate a response!

I'm a midstakes reg and I have a piosolver.
I found out that I can't run sims on BVB spots where ranges are very wide and I would put multiple bet sizings there as well.
I don't have enough memory (I have 8GB).
So I'm thinking that do I upgrade my PC to DDR4 setup, or do I buy more DDR3 ram?
I'm in the process of upgrading my outdated graphics card (Amd Radeon HD4870). Does GPU have big effect on piosolver?

My CPU is Intel i5 2500k. Is this still a very good processor for running piosolver?
Does piosolver utilize multiple cores well?
Is there difference between 4, 6 and 8 cores?

I don't play computer games anymore, so I'm not hesitant to make a huge computer upgrade right now.
So tl;dr: Is Intel i5 2500k "just good enough" for pio?
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:36 AM   #2686
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Hello, Ive just bought an OVH dedicated server but am having some trouble finding out how to start using it with PIOsolver... Are there are tutorials, videos or posts anywhere in this thread that can help me?
Once you can access Windows with graphical interface using remote desktop it's easy (just copy your Pio folder there or start the updater there the same way you did on your home computer).

If you have trouble setting remote desktop interface we don't have tutorials for that but googling "how to use windows remote desktop with dedicated server" brings some tutorials (I am not going to link here but there are some step-by-step with pictures on first page of Google search results).

Quote:
I found out that I can't run sims on BVB spots where ranges are very wide and I would put multiple bet sizings there as well.
I don't have enough memory (I have 8GB).
With 8GB you should be able to run trees with 2 sizes at most points but not bigger than that. Those trees are already quite big but somehow it became fashionable to run trees with a lot of sizes, I am not sure if that's the best way as you need to wait a lot for solutions and there isn't much added value from having a lot of sizings available in my view.

Quote:
So I'm thinking that do I upgrade my PC to DDR4 setup, or do I buy more DDR3 ram?
RAM speed isn't a bottleneck for Pio so if you can get away with adding more DDR3 RAM (you need empty slots on your motherboard) then that's the best way as DDR3 is cheaper.

Quote:
Does GPU have big effect on piosolver?
It has 0 effect and it will stay that way for foreseeable future.

Quote:
My CPU is Intel i5 2500k. Is this still a very good processor for running piosolver?
It's decent but you can easily get 2x to 3x speed-up with modern fast CPU (like hexa core i7 or 1700/1800 Ryzen).
You can run a benchmark, like here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ozjfnatwms (question number 2)

and see what's the time is. Ryzen 1700 gets sub 5s one. Something like 5820k gets around 6s not overclock but can be overclocked to get much better results.

Quote:
Does piosolver utilize multiple cores well?
Yes, pro version uses up to 12 threads in this version and it will be 16 in the next one. It means it will use all the cores in home CPUs.

Quote:
Is there difference between 4, 6 and 8 cores?
Yes - the more the better.

Quote:
so I'm not hesitant to make a huge computer upgrade right now.
So tl;dr: Is Intel i5 2500k "just good enough" for pio?
The problem is that it's likely not the best time to upgrade. It looks like Intel vs AMD competition is back again and it's likely there will significant price adjustment as well as some new powerful CPUs in the next 1-2 years. I wouldn't upgrade from 2500k right now as it's a big investment for maybe 2.5x speed-up while it's likely you can get more for less in 1-2 years.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:36 AM   #2687
ADK
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

Last time I asked (maybe late last year) there was talk of implementing a conditional filtering system, similiar to what CREV currently has. I think you guys said this was the next biggest thing you were trying to work on.

Any update on this? I've noticed there hasn't been an update to the software in quite a long time.

Cheers
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:52 AM   #2688
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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Last time I asked (maybe late last year) there was talk of implementing a conditional filtering system
There were talks and it's in fact one of the features which seems to be important for people.

Quote:
I think you guys said this was the next biggest thing you were trying to work on.
I don't think we said that. It's one of the things for sure but our plan didn't change much from last year. The nature of our business model is that we can't just add features forever to the existing product and we need to take some time aside to develop new things. That's the consequence of not having subscription based model.

Quote:
I've noticed there hasn't been an update to the software in quite a long time.
With some luck we will be releasing something new this month. The plans after that are not yet set but 1.10 version of the current solver is planned as well.
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Old 06-21-2017, 04:25 AM   #2689
Ballerholic
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi, I would like to buy pio solver basic. I only have a 2015 Macbook Pro Retina Display which has 8gb of ram. I have parallel windows and I can probably give 4gb of the ram for use on this. Will I be able to use Pio Basic on this machine?
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Old 06-21-2017, 05:34 AM   #2690
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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Hi, I would like to buy pio solver basic. I only have a 2015 Macbook Pro Retina Display which has 8gb of ram. I have parallel windows and I can probably give 4gb of the ram for use on this. Will I be able to use Pio Basic on this machine?
Yes although you will be quite limited when it comes to trees with multiple bet sizes. With one bet size you will be fine. I recommend downloading our free version, it solves one flops these days (Qs Jh 2h) so you can test the performance/trees you are able to build.

It's a good idea to assign more cores to Prallels as well (the default is 1 core I believe).
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:02 AM   #2691
poker-hero
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

A few questions :

1. I have in mind that in order to set up a GTO strategy, we should only mix +EV actions (and not include -EV actions for the only purpose of balancing) : is that right?

2. In this thread, we discuss an example of Pio analysis (post is http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...49&postcount=8).
In this example, Piosolver incorporates -EV actions in his plays.
I imagined it is because calculations stopped because it reached the desired accuracy.
Which would mean that if the calculations continued until reaching the perfect equilibrium, these -EV plays would disappear.
What do you think about that?

3. I am currently studying another River spot where Piosolver includes in the shoving range bluffing combos whose shoving EV is negative.
Is there any other reason than calculations stopped too early for this?

ty
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:29 AM   #2692
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
1. I have in mind that in order to set up a GTO strategy, we should only mix +EV actions (and not include -EV actions for the only purpose of balancing) : is that right?
Yes. Moreover only the best (EV-wise) actions should be mixed.

Quote:
In this example, Piosolver incorporates -EV actions in his plays.
That's a matter of accuracy. The plays might be -EV against the current approximation of the opponent's GTO. That of course wouldn't be the case in a perfect equilibrium but it is what it is with not perfect ones.

Quote:
these -EV plays would disappear.
What do you think about that?
Yes, although Pio doesn't get to a perfect equilibrium (unless it's a really simple game). It gets pretty close though.

Quote:
Is there any other reason than calculations stopped too early for this?
No.
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Old 06-22-2017, 09:25 AM   #2693
usqueadfinem
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi, i have a problem with the reports. The values on the reports are different from the ones on pio.
For example as you can see on the second image, on the report there is a cbet of 54.15% but on the solver the % is 72.62.In the last image the oop ev is 7.53 and it's clearly wrong.How can i fix?
Ty.[IMG][IMG][IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG]
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:04 AM   #2694
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Hi, i have a problem with the reports. The values on the reports are different from the ones on pio.
Reports aggregate so the values there are averages across many turns/rivers (or flops in case of multifile ones).
Anyway, to tell more I need more information. Your screenshot don't show as they are private on your Google Drive. You need to upload them using some kind of public uploading service and link.
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:55 AM   #2695
usqueadfinem
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Ok.Now i upload the link.
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:58 AM   #2696
usqueadfinem
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

http://imgur.com/11wUUwZ
In column I the % of bet is 54.15.
On pio as u can see is 72.62.
http://imgur.com/83zMdh0
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:11 PM   #2697
usqueadfinem
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

http://imgur.com/PgVQLlo

In this tree for example the ev of oop is 7.53 and the pot is 50.

I hope that u understood my issue.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:42 PM   #2698
drawdown
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

I'm trying to reduce my memory needs for preflop calcs (mostly 6max IP v BB) as much as possible, and have tried to keep my preflop and postflop trees simple.

Will starting with a smaller OOP range that excludes obvious folds like T2o-42o produce ranges almost identical to ones I'd get starting with a 100% range, or will my results be different/invalid?

Thanks.
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Old 06-23-2017, 02:43 AM   #2699
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
http://imgur.com/PgVQLlo

In this tree for example the ev of oop is 7.53 and the pot is 50.

I hope that u understood my issue.
It's difficult to tell without seeing the actual tree. Can you please send us the config, like that:

1)go to treebuilding and calculation tab
2)make sure the config is filled in
3)click "copy to clipboard" button
4)paste either to email (support@piosolver.com) or pastebin.com and link

This way I can recreate the tree myself and try to reproduce the issue.
Are you sure you only have the saves from that script available in your folder?

Quote:
Will starting with a smaller OOP range that excludes obvious folds like T2o-42o produce ranges almost identical to ones I'd get starting with a 100% range, or will my results be different/invalid?
The only gain is from removing hands which aren't in IP range either. The results will be valid although overall EV won't be (as folds with hands not in range are not counted anymore) but that's not a big problem.
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:50 AM   #2700
poker-hero
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

Is there a known bug with this feature : "Plugins / Multiple Runouts / Flops aggregation Plugin / include hands in report"?

I do it at ROOT, and in the Hand column, instead of listing OOP's hands, it lists IP's hands.

And for any IP's hand which is not in OOP's range, it puts "NaN" instead of the equity or frequency.
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