Hi scylla great software
Im havin some really hard time figuring out several things

1. lets say I am SB with 20BB, BB have 100BBs.
According to the Unexploitable shove I need to shove with 40%(!!!)
This is not making any sense...could you explain it please , thank

2. after examining this, I went to check my statistics and I have found out that I lose 27bb\100 in this situation (all folded to me, I am SB)
Which means that I lose in average 0.27BB every time.

How can I see the bb\100 when using Unexploitable push in this situation?

Many thanks, hope I made myself clear enough.

sorry double post

Hi Hemelet,

Yes, about the same thing over here.
38% here, but maybe I have slightly different settings.
Can you show me any pushing range that you feel performs significantly better?
Because I can't find one.


Edit: Ok, just manually checked by making a 2D graph. I varied the sb's pushing range and the bb's calling range. In excel, for every pushing range filter out the optimal calling range. Then out of all the pushing ranges, pick the best one. Best pushing range found was top 30%, best calling range top 15%.

Performance: $0.26.
Unexploitable shoving result: $0.28, which is a better result.

I see no reason to doubt the performance of the unexploitable shoving tool.


Multiply the EV by 100 I suppose ...

Ok, new feature and need some help.

When a condition has been created for either
- Unexploitable shoving
- Maximum exploitable counter-strategy
a short description is now given when you hover over such a condition.

Let me know if I've missed some major category.

Thanks for the reply.

1. So you can confirm that all the stats are legit? that the 39.1 is accurate?
btw do you have and can show "proof of concept" ? ak screen shot of PT,HM etc showing a result of unxploitable shove, after X amount of hands? that would be great.

2. what I meant to ask in the last question is, by using this wonderful tool , I expect to lose -0.21

And as said in the previous post, I currently lose 0.27BB\100 which is incredibly close to the EV using the unexploitable shoving! (-0.21 right?) {with 20BB on SB )

Does it mean that my SB play is very well?

Many thanks in advance, really appreciate your assistance

when stox ev auto downloads the new update, my virus scanner detects a threat

it says "a variant of Win32/Packed.Themida potentially unwanted application"

All I can tell you is, there is no threat.
Problem is, with all the virus scanners out there, I simply can not prevent one of them giving a false positive.

It's possible that there is a slightly better solution, but somewhere around the hands that are given, yes.

Sorry, don't have the time.
Also don't have a large database with 20bb sb's pusing into a bb.

Unexploitable shoving focusses on push or fold situations. Sometimes a smaller raise will get better results. If you only play push or fold then you're close to the optimum I suppose.

A bit too complicated for a chick like me

That's about right. See the relevant chapters of MOP and the FT book.

Actually, on second thougt, bb probably doesn't call with the optimal range.
So you can probably improve significantly if you choose the correct pushing range.

I love the software scylla. I wanted to offer up a feature suggestion, how about allowing for copy pasting of entire branches?

StoxEV is really powerful but I've found myself wanting more than once wanting to make some simplified assumptions that an opponent would always take a specific action.

For example:

CO (50)
Button (50)
SB (50)
BB (50)

CO raises to 5 with top 30% of hands

Button calls top 50% of hands, folds the rest

SB, always: shoves top 5% of hands, calls top 5-20% of hands, and folds the rest.

BB, always: shoves top 10% of hands, raises to 15 with top 10%-15%, and folds the rest.

Right now, I need to copy and paste the actions of the SB and BB one by one many times. It would be great if I could just select all of an entire branch of actions and paste them to another part of the tree. It would make some problems much, much less tedious to input.

Somebody asked about this last year, scylla's comments from back then can be found here.

As stated in the link above, I don't wanna.

Hello scylla, I have been using StoexEV for a while and I am very impressed with it.

However, today it seams I discovered that I do not understand what it really calculates .

I did the simple routine below. I raise PF from the BT with 99, BB 3Bets me and I call. Them I suppose that the BB will CB on the flop 100% of the time and that I will shove 100% of the time. Then StoexEV tells me that shoving on the flop is a +EV play, however calling pre-flop is a –EV one!? How calling PF can be –EV, if I know that once I do it I will be shoving on the flop 100% of the time and that is a +EV play?

If anybody else knows the answer, please.

Thanks