ok cool. It did seem like when the player shoved unexploitably, he never bluffed, and sometimes only shoved the nuts. Thanks for checkin that out. Hopefully its easier to fix than you suspect

Hi scylla,

just foolin' around with card removal effects.
Is it possible to set the number of initial players which get cards dealt? Of course, this matters regarding the probabilities in hitting something on the forthcoming streets. I guess the 'Heads up' switch does the trick for 2 players, but what about 6,9 or 10 players?

Thanks & Regards,

/SunKidDance

if villain open folds in MP (full ring) and his stats say 14/12 do you really get much card removal from that? Sure, we know he doesn't have TT+ or AK he he could easily be folding Ax, Kx, Qx. It seems like the card removal effects would be neglible, especially when multiplied by several people with non-maniacal ranges that fold. Sure, you know none of them had KK but can you really draw any useful inferences about how many kings got burned when they folded?

It doesn't answer your question, but you may be interested in:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...lation-321075/

Card removal is only applied to players that are in the hand.
Applying card removal for players that are not in the hand would be too computationally expensive.
Incidentally, the "heads up" switch applies card removal in the same way as the non-switch.

Funk is correct in pointing out that the effect of card removal due to people that have folded is negligible.
When I started writing StoxEv this is one of the first things I simulated, the differences in card distribution were extremely small.

If you're interested in this, you can also simulate it with StoxEV. Just set up a tree with something like 6 players and let the first ones fold with some credible range. Compare the card distributions for the remaining player(s) with the same situation where the first players are not in the tree. Should be a small difference.

Interesting.

For cash games I think the card removal effect being discussed has negligible impact since folks are generally deep stacked (compared to tourney play) and don't shove / call-AI with wide ranges but in short stacked tournament play the effect of a few players with wide ranges folding could be significant (as your thread shows).

To belabor the obvious ... by players in the hand you mean when we are starting a new hand and we check which players we want in the hand (e.g. UTG, CO, BTN, SB) only these players are dealt cards.

If we are playing full ring and wanted to be sure to take the card removal effect into account then we could simply have all 9 players dealt in preflop and assign them ranges. Is there an easy way to make StoxEV ignore their raising/calling range?

Correct.

There is not. It's too computationally expensive. Fortunately however, it's not a very important factor.

Nice software the price is steep but I would be willing to buy it but only being able to use it on one PC is the only thing stopping me from purchasing, I have a laptop and a desktop and I would definitely want to use it on both.

Hope I'm not being overly criticial I hope you can find some way to resolve that, I would definitely buy it if it was $60 for one key or $125 for two keys, but $125 for just one key is a pretty unreasonable...

stox ev has stopped working for me. i reinstalled it with no result

manually installed latest patch, no result again.

!!!!!

when i start the program the little box comes up saying that stoxev will start in 5 seconds but it just dissapears and stoxev never shows itself

Can you start StoxEVmain.exe manually?

Is this the commercial version or the trial version?

When i start StoxEVMain.exe nothing comes up at all, not even the little box.

sh58s problem is the exactly the same as mine btw (he is my flatmate)

edit: they are both commercial versions

Ok, I'll post a new version, let's see how that works out.

You'll like it.
It has a couple of new features.

Give me about 30 minutes.

Ok, try again.

Two improvements over last version:
- Postflop menu, holecards submenu now has a matrix for selecting starting hands as oposed to the earlier version where you could only type in a range.
- Unexploitable shoving at the river, when having hte option to check behind now takes into account that you should push your strongest and weakest hands while checking the intermediate ones behind.

Let me know if that fixes it.

Scylla

this sounds great. still doesnt work though stoxev.exe or stoxevmain.exe.

Really??
Try again with the patch in this link:
http://www.stoxev.com/patch/C/patch237commercial.zip

fully functional again after using the patch. thanks for your help

scylla, the program is freezing everytime I use the new unexploitable shoving on the river. Its done it on 2 different files now

Im sad

Ok, not entirely shocked since I was kind of forced to release a bit early.
Works fine over here though.
Could you send them to me please?

Is anyone else having problems with the software running or accessing the stoxev site?

will do tomorrow. Wont have access to my comp that has stox ev on it till then

I think the site was temporarily down.
It's up now, just try again.

That's what I want to know .

Thanks,

/SunKidDance

A question about EV in the stoxEV display

I notice that EV is displayed at the player nodes and not action graph edges. Presumably the EV (relative or absolute) is the sum of the EV of all actions leading from that node. Is there a simple way of seeing the EV of each particular action?