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GTO+/CardRunnersEV? GTO+/CardRunnersEV?

04-26-2009 , 12:05 AM
@Powers_That_Be

To my understanding, those hands will be the whole range. Villain will show up with JJ 20% of the time when going all in, it doesn't matter how often he folds them. He for sure is not going to fold AA 50% of the time, does he?

This might shed some light:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokercurious
Got a question on some of the calculations:

When I simulate a simple preflop decision, I get the following tree and resulting EV:



Now, when I add the "fold" branch of the tree, the equity and EV both change:



The EV of a fold should be zero here, right? Why is it changing when I add the fold branch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
A player's range is decided in his first decision.

In the first pic the BB's range will be the top 17.5% of hands. He will get those hands 100% of the time.

In the second pic the BB's range is all hands. He will play 17.5% of them and fold the rest.

In the second pic the EV of the top 17.5% of hands is about $164, the EV of folding is 0. The total EV will be $164*0.175+$0*0.825=$29.

Last edited by doodydota; 04-26-2009 at 12:33 AM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-26-2009 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doodydota
Awesome program!

I've just started learning this awesome program.
Unfortunatly I have reached a problem I cannot solve.
In your vid #2 you discus value-betting AK on the river with a condition to call villain' reraise all-in only if we get proper pot-odds.

I want to construct an exaple where UTG+5 is always calling UTG's flop shove with TP or better.

Additionally, I want UTG+5 to call the shove when getting at least odds 2:1 with his whole range.

On the images you can see that UTG+5 gets odds only 1.54:1 so he should fold. In this case this is equivalent with the 2nd condition (orange dot) fold all hands. In this case his EV = 990


However if I use the build-in funcion for pot odds calls (call <=2150) I get a different result. His EV = -699. Why? UTG+5 shold also fold in 100% of runs which should yield exactly the same result like in picture #1.

What am I missing?
Seems to be a bug in the Math engine.
The EV of the "Fold(Call<=215" line is identified as -2800 instead of 0.
Monte carlo mode works fine though.
I'll fix it for the next update.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-26-2009 , 03:46 PM
found a small bug: when you change a call to a bet and bet an amount that would put all players all-in preflop, stoxEV still sends the players to the flop and expects actions. The same does not happen if it was originally a bet and you jsut increase the amount,. so I'm sure there is some check the program performs for the latter that it doesn't for the former or something simple like that.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-26-2009 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk
found a small bug: when you change a call to a bet and bet an amount that would put all players all-in preflop, stoxEV still sends the players to the flop and expects actions. The same does not happen if it was originally a bet and you jsut increase the amount,. so I'm sure there is some check the program performs for the latter that it doesn't for the former or something simple like that.
Yeah, sometimes when you change something like a bet amount in the tree it's hard to correct for that in a subtree.
There's several ways in which this can occur and it appears I missed this one.
I'll have a look at it.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2009 , 10:08 AM
Have not DL this but plan to today.
One question I have in advance of that; is this a self contained program or does it make use of hand histories in our PT database?

Sorry if I've missed the obvious!

Thanks
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2009 , 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rarerabbit
Have not DL this but plan to today.
One question I have in advance of that; is this a self contained program or does it make use of hand histories in our PT database?

Sorry if I've missed the obvious!

Thanks
Self contained.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-29-2009 , 04:14 AM
Hey scylla,

After the most recent update whenever I select 'check down' it outputs a fold instead.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-29-2009 , 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyT
Hey scylla,

After the most recent update whenever I select 'check down' it outputs a fold instead.
Got it.
Looks like I screwed something up.
Gimme a sec.


Edit: Ok, fixed.

Last edited by scylla; 04-29-2009 at 06:26 AM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-08-2009 , 04:08 AM
Hey scylla, looks like you finally released a commercial version of stox ev, congrats!

IM havign some problems registering though.

First, I cant download the software, it will download, and then fail right at the end. On the website it says to right click to save to disk, but when I try right clicking the ling and saving the link as, it fails again. IM not sure what IM doing wrong.

Also, as far as payment, I sent a donation of 50$ a few months back, and sent you an email and you responded back. Im confused now how much I owe for the commercial version.

Thanks for any help
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-08-2009 , 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2themfi
Hey scylla, looks like you finally released a commercial version of stox ev, congrats!
Yeah, after one year of public beta I finally decided to ask for a contribution

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2themfi
IM havign some problems registering though.

First, I cant download the software, it will download, and then fail right at the end. On the website it says to right click to save to disk, but when I try right clicking the ling and saving the link as, it fails again. IM not sure what IM doing wrong.
Ok, that's odd, it works ok over here.
I've just put it up on MegaUpload.
Go here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=29CYB8B4
You'll need to enter a code and the download should start.

Should that not work, just try downloading to a different location at your harddisk. Maybe you've got some failure in the download and every new attempt somehow uses cache. Whenever I get this problem (not often, but it happens) this solves it. Just make sure to download to disk first by rightclicking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by d2themfi
Also, as far as payment, I sent a donation of 50$ a few months back, and sent you an email and you responded back. Im confused now how much I owe for the commercial version.
First of all you get a $25 discount regardless of the size of the contribution.
After that you can deduct your contribution.
That would bring it at $50.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-09-2009 , 02:39 AM
Unfortunately none of that advice worked.

When you say right click to save to disk, do you mean right click, and click "save link as", because otherwise I dont know what you mean by "save to disk". I am using Vista fwiw

Also, Part of the problem(or al of it?) might be that both my anti virus(Eset NOD), and Firewall(Comodo) detect malware and heuristics when downloading the software. I tried downloading after disabling both, but it still did not work

Any help would be appreciated
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-09-2009 , 03:39 AM
Never mind I got it to work
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-09-2009 , 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
First of all you get a $25 discount regardless of the size of the contribution.
After that you can deduct your contribution.
That would bring it at $50.
I'm glad your finally getting paid! I'll be buying the commercial version real soon (e.g. tomorrow). I'm glad to know that I'll have this edge over cheapskates
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-09-2009 , 05:06 AM
Great software.

But isn't 125$ a bit too much? The full pro version of HEM is 90$...
Unless your targeted audience is people with 10k bankrolls, of course.

Too expensive for me
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-09-2009 , 06:03 AM
Sent u the $ and an email scylla, congrats again on finally releasing it commercially
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-09-2009 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie2k
Great software.

But isn't 125$ a bit too much? The full pro version of HEM is 90$...
Unless your targeted audience is people with 10k bankrolls, of course.

Too expensive for me
Look forward to seeing you across the table, heh heh.

If you had donated during the beta it would be cheaper .
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-09-2009 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doodydota
@Powers_That_Be

To my understanding, those hands will be the whole range. Villain will show up with JJ 20% of the time when going all in, it doesn't matter how often he folds them. He for sure is not going to fold AA 50% of the time, does he?

This might shed some light:
yes, those hands will be his whole range, but the frequencies will be wrong.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-10-2009 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyj
Look forward to seeing you across the table, heh heh.

If you had donated during the beta it would be cheaper .
I had downloaded the software to try it but I never got around to. The first time I opened it, I couldn't make any sense of it.

Then the other night, this question comes up in the micros forum and I'm thinking: "Hey that software might help". It could have, but it downloaded the latest version that's locked down unless you shell out the money.

So I never really had the chance to donate. I usually do. I didn't.

I guess I'll just continue without it.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-10-2009 , 02:51 PM
I took me many failed attempts to figure out Stoxev.
After finally putting in some effort this April in learning the software I am very happy with it. The videos are very helpful.

I can assure you the effort and money is worth it.

I am not a high-roller by any means, just barely rolled for $6-$15 SnG's.
Purchasing Stoxev is an investment I hope will pay off in the future.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-10-2009 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie2k
I had downloaded the software to try it but I never got around to. The first time I opened it, I couldn't make any sense of it.

Then the other night, this question comes up in the micros forum and I'm thinking: "Hey that software might help". It could have, but it downloaded the latest version that's locked down unless you shell out the money.

So I never really had the chance to donate. I usually do. I didn't.

I guess I'll just continue without it.
Time to learn pokerrazor imo
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-11-2009 , 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powers_That_Be
Time to learn pokerrazor imo
Looks like it is indeed.

No mention of their price though.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-11-2009 , 10:36 AM
The download link http://www.stoxev.com/patch/C/stoxev230.msi mentioned on the page http://www.stoxev.com/purchase.htm doesn't seem to work.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-11-2009 , 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gball
The download link http://www.stoxev.com/patch/C/stoxev230.msi mentioned on the page http://www.stoxev.com/purchase.htm doesn't seem to work.
Thanks!

Fixed.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-11-2009 , 12:06 PM
Hi Scylla,

Amazing software - quick question though, will it be possible to allocate a range of hands to play for example by raising, and then calculate an unexploitable shoving range using the remainder of available hands?
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
05-11-2009 , 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopard
Hi Scylla,

Amazing software - quick question though, will it be possible to allocate a range of hands to play for example by raising, and then calculate an unexploitable shoving range using the remainder of available hands?
One thing you could do is remove those hands from the range one node earlier.
If such a node does not exist what you could do is make the raise and below that make some tiny raise, for instance to 1 cent.
Then let villain reraise to 2 cents.
Then perform unexploitable shove.
Other than the 2 cent trick it will be the same thing.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote

      
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