Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > Internet Poker > Software > Commercial Software

Notices

Commercial Software Discussion of commercial gambling-related / poker software & commercial graphics modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2008, 06:30 AM   #301
old hand
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,218
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiammaz View Post
Ah yeah??? Sorry I am retard
Not really.

I've added a whole bunch of stuff since the latest manual and I still need to update it.
I'll do that in a few months if I'm sure I won't be changing it again in some way shape or form.
It takes a lot of effort to make a video manual and if I, let's say, choose to change the appearance of the program, then I'd have to do everything over again.

For now the only way to be aware of new features is to read the release notes in every version.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2008, 06:35 AM   #302
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Running much below the expectation
Posts: 348
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Ok then . I ask you another thing: is possible to review all hands of a sng and graph the ev of our play, then we can change our game decision and do another graph and then, compare they in one graph instead of 2?
fiammaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2008, 06:37 AM   #303
old hand
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,218
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiammaz View Post
Ok then . I ask you another thing: is possible to review all hands of a sng and graph the ev of our play, then we can change our game decision and do another graph and then, compare they in one graph instead of 2?
Pfff, that would be an entirely different piece of software all together.
Sit n Go Wizard does something like that I believe.
I'd hate to reinvent the wheel.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2008, 06:40 AM   #304
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Running much below the expectation
Posts: 348
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Pfff, that would be an entirely different piece of software all together.
Sit n Go Wizard does something like that I believe.
I'd hate to reinvent the wheel.
Obv, I don't want to change it,your program is usefull :-D
I ask you because, maybe it would be possible and I don't know of it
fiammaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2008, 08:16 PM   #305
old hand
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,218
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiammaz View Post
Obv, I don't want to change it,your program is usefull :-D
I ask you because, maybe it would be possible and I don't know of it
No, I'm afraid that's not possible, however you might want to google "Sit and go wizard" for that.
That program does exactly what you are asking for in post #302.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2008, 04:57 PM   #306
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Running much below the expectation
Posts: 348
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
No, I'm afraid that's not possible, however you might want to google "Sit and go wizard" for that.
That program does exactly what you are asking for in post #302.

No no wizard tells me other things...probably I have explained bad myself.
What I should said is: Is possible to make a graph like poker EV for all the hands?
fiammaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 06:27 AM   #307
old hand
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,218
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiammaz View Post
No no wizard tells me other things...probably I have explained bad myself.
What I should said is: Is possible to make a graph like poker EV for all the hands?
That would be extremely complex (impossible in fact I think) since it would require building a bot that would simulate the behaviour of every single one of your opponents and then figure out your EV against their ranges. This would only be possible for all in moves. And that program already exists.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 07:15 AM   #308
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Running much below the expectation
Posts: 348
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
That would be extremely complex (impossible in fact I think) since it would require building a bot that would simulate the behaviour of every single one of your opponents and then figure out your EV against their ranges. This would only be possible for all in moves. And that program already exists.
I'm bad explained myself again...I'm talk about EV graph when players are all in.
fiammaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 08:15 AM   #309
old hand
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,218
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiammaz View Post
I'm bad explained myself again...I'm talk about EV graph when players are all in.
Oh, yes, that would be possible.
It would take me quite a bit of time though I think.
Also, it already exists, which kind of defeats the purpose.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 09:26 AM   #310
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Running much below the expectation
Posts: 348
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Oh, yes, that would be possible.
It would take me quite a bit of time though I think.
Also, it already exists, which kind of defeats the purpose.
If you are talking about juk's program...it only support sng 6-10 handed
fiammaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 09:28 AM   #311
old hand
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,218
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

I was talking about pokerEV.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 10:07 AM   #312
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Running much below the expectation
Posts: 348
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
I was talking about pokerEV.

Of course but it doesn't support sng, it's only for cash game
fiammaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 09:30 PM   #313
See my PUA listing
 
goofyballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Searching for my Canuck soulmate
Posts: 34,089
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Scylla, would it be possible to implement something that would simulate Sklansky-Chubukov calculation?

For example, take the following model:



What I want to do is change the circled part from "call with ____ defined range" to "call *if it is profitable* to do so." What I mean is, when enumerating an EV run, the program gives me 32o for my shove in the BB, then calculates SB's equity and has the SB call (in the simulation) with all the hands for which it's +EV. Then it gives me 42o, recalculates SB's equity with his whole hand range and then has him call with the hands for which he can profitably do so, etc etc. The ultimate goal is to calculate the range with which the BB can shove in that spot profitably assuming that the SB plays perfectly against every shove.

You could kinda consider it a batch process - since we're assigning Hero (BB) each individual hand and running an EV run against that one hand. That is in fact how I would calculate this, but obv changing hero's hand one at a time and resetting SB's range to exclude his -EV calls after each EV run would take hours.

Or is there a way for me to do this right now and I'm just a retard? If not, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE this feature and I might ask for your hand in marriage. We could go out in public together!


(wrt the "resetting SB's range to exclude his -EV calls" - could you implement that automatically? Frequently when using this program I do an EV run, then edit someone's range to exclude all the hands that show up as -EV when I hover the mouse over their hands - a one-click or button thing which would go through the EV table and edit out -EV hands from the range would be awesome)
goofyballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 10:20 PM   #314
old hand
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,218
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Hi Goofy,

I am indeed working on unexploitable shoving this week and hope to have it done by friday. We probably won't be so lucky though, but it should be done within a reasonable timeframe.
It's a somewhat complex problem and it's one of the reasons why I wrote the math engine (I couldn't do it with the Monte Carlo one because I need the EXACT EV of every individual holecard without it jumping to a different value with every calculation).

Cheers,

Scylla


Edit: Surprisingly, as it turns out, you must include some -EV hands in your shoving range to arive at an equilibrium between hero and villain's range. It's been a huge pain, but I've finally figured out how to arrive at the mathematically correct answer in a pretty reasonable timeframe. I think. It's not easy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Scylla, would it be possible to implement something that would simulate Sklansky-Chubukov calculation?

For example, take the following model:



What I want to do is change the circled part from "call with ____ defined range" to "call *if it is profitable* to do so." What I mean is, when enumerating an EV run, the program gives me 32o for my shove in the BB, then calculates SB's equity and has the SB call (in the simulation) with all the hands for which it's +EV. Then it gives me 42o, recalculates SB's equity with his whole hand range and then has him call with the hands for which he can profitably do so, etc etc. The ultimate goal is to calculate the range with which the BB can shove in that spot profitably assuming that the SB plays perfectly against every shove.

You could kinda consider it a batch process - since we're assigning Hero (BB) each individual hand and running an EV run against that one hand. That is in fact how I would calculate this, but obv changing hero's hand one at a time and resetting SB's range to exclude his -EV calls after each EV run would take hours.

Or is there a way for me to do this right now and I'm just a retard? If not, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE this feature and I might ask for your hand in marriage. We could go out in public together!


(wrt the "resetting SB's range to exclude his -EV calls" - could you implement that automatically? Frequently when using this program I do an EV run, then edit someone's range to exclude all the hands that show up as -EV when I hover the mouse over their hands - a one-click or button thing which would go through the EV table and edit out -EV hands from the range would be awesome)

Last edited by scylla; 08-04-2008 at 10:26 PM.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2008, 10:37 PM   #315
See my PUA listing
 
goofyballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Searching for my Canuck soulmate
Posts: 34,089
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.0.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Edit: Surprisingly, as it turns out, you must include some -EV hands in your shoving range to arive at an equilibrium between hero and villain's range. It's been a huge pain, but I've finally figured out how to arrive at the mathematically correct answer in a pretty reasonable timeframe. I think. It's not easy.
Yeah, it's definitely a mind****. I get confused every time I sit down w/ the program and try to figure it out.
goofyballer is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive