I'll see what I can do.

hey scylla - great program

i have a question regarding the following situation

we are in the BB and are facing an openshove - folding is now regarded as Ev0. Is there a condition possible to make the fold -1BB? we normally just have to be better off -1bb

i tried to solve the problem by adding additional chips - but the results are no longer correct.

Please turn on "Settings->display strategy ev SB vs BB".
The EVs of the SB and BB strategy prior to posting will be shown in green letters in the upper left of the screen.

I have recently bought CardRunnersEV. I probably don't know how to use it probably so I struggle with it. I had this hand in a limped pot where I checked BB with Q8o and flopped a middle pair. Since the board was somehow coordinated I decided to barrel and I want to see how profitable is it to double barrel because his range was tilted more towards draws from the information I had gathered on his range. I also would like to experiment a little like how profitable would it be for me to double barrel and then c/c against let's say an aggro fish who is gonna bluff all of his missed draws on the river etc.

So I created a tree in which I set the turn and river card as they were in the hand. When I pressed to calculate I got all these red exclamation marks all over the place that said that the turn and river cards are known or whatever. I mean so what? I wanted to see how profitable is it with a blank/Card that completes a draw etc. What am I doing wrong?

Hey,

If the play is on the flop, and you're interested in the EVs on the flop, then you'll need to set the turn and river as a blank card. If you tell the program what they are, then it will calculate all the EVs and equities in full knowledge of how the board is going to develop in future streets (you don't want that).

Please mail your savefile to support if you want me to take a closer look.

Well my play is not on the "flop", but rather on the flop, turn and river. I was interested in whether each street is profitable and whether the whole hand is profitable and how much. I mean I don't really understand you. Pokerrazor worked that way.

I mean we all know AA vs KK is like a 81% favorite or w/e. It does not matter what flop, turn etc. we have. The preflop (in this case) equity is still 81%. HEM shows your equity by street too why would that be a problem to have calculated how much I make with each of my decisions.

Ah, I see.
You added a screenshot.

If you're basically just looking at a situation where you're considering double-barreling no matter what and check-folding the river (unless of course you hit >=2 pair) then the tree is fine and you can ignore the question marks. I can see what you meant now with your first question; I misunderstood it a bit without the pic.

What I would recommend is setting the turn and river to random here. You will now indeed get the equity per street as you expected (this software works more like pokerstove; if you enter the turn and/or river, then they wíll be used for the equity calculations on the flop; this program is a calculator; it simply performs the calculations it's told to perform).

The issue you seem to be having is a actually a completely different one. You're stating that Button should call with >=3rd pair AND a flushdraw, where I asume you want >=3rd pair OR a flushdraw. Because >=3rd pair AND a flushdraw is impossible on a Th8c6s board, button is now folding all his hands there (which is why it says "Fold 100%").
To enter conditions as OR, please add those conditions separately. In the version you're using right now, you can do that by adding a condition and then pressing the "add condition" field.

Also, on the river (after setting turn and river unknown), please remove Button's "all hands" condition on top (select it by left-clicking it and press Del). Currently he's always betting. After that, at the very least make BB call if he's hit >=2 pair and fold otherwise.

After that it should work as you expected.

It should look something like this:


For this screenshot I've used the current beta, which I recommend. You can download it here: http://www.cardrunners-ev-calculator...henewbeta.html

And here's a link to the savefile: www.crevfiles.com/crev/doublebarrel.stx


I'm currently working hard on further developing the beta. From the second half of this month on I will be producing a large number of smallish (I'm shooting for 5 minutes) instructional videos on youtube, where I discuss a wide range of analysis spots and math problems. It will provide more detail than the current vids, and also be more "On demand" as opposed to me talking for 1.5 hours straight (subtitles will be added as well).
In July I expect to focus on Scripting (development has completed; coming soon!) and Unexploitable Shoving (requires some additional explanation), August will focus on the general instructions. The general instructions should (if I can get the format to work) come with exercises.

I think it would be useful if there was an option to show the results on each street considering the cards known by that street only. This especially when importing full hands for review. I think the equity part of this should be self evident but also the EV could be useful... as in "my line seems to be OK till the turn, but once that river card came it went -EV so I should think of something different".

That would run into the problem that it's mathematically impossible to calculate the EV in any spot if the user hasn't defined what happens in later streets on an unknown board. For example, the program can't just say: "Calling with 22-JJ,AQ-AT preflop has an EV of 4.51" if it has no information of what happens after the flop has been dealt. There's information missing here that can't just be filled in. You could write it so that the program takes a random stab at it, or just checks down, but there would be nothing to support that data.

In the end, the purpose of this program is to function as a calculator. If you give it a decision tree and a board it will do all EV calculations for you. For every decision node and every action and condition within it, down to the level of individual holecards. Its purpose is to provide a flexible tool that assists in mathematical analysis. But in the end, this is about math. I can't just add a feature to it that just makes up data. I mean, it sounds like a fun feature, there's no denying that, but I just don't think it has a place within a tool that is focussed on providing exact mathematical answers.

Fwiw, the solution I suggested to the above spot where hero considers double-barreling and giving up on the river should do nicely. A street-by-street analysis tool is not required here. Also, a street-by-street tool would only look at one street and ignore the intent to double-barrel. The current way the software works is the only way to perform that analysis.

What I'm suggesting is I build a valid decision tree just like normally, all the way to the river and (possible) showdown. Let's say I import a hand where I took a call down line after seeing the flop. I have a known hand, I give villain a range and maybe some alternative lines on different parts of his range. I click F7 and get some equities and an EV on my flop line decision. But since the full board is known, it doesn't tell me whether my flop decision was actually good. I'd like to be able to click a "realtime" button, after which the flop (and turn and river) EV is calculated based on my line but with only the info (i.e. cards) available at that time. That way I could easily see, for example, that my flop decision was good, but since the Qc fell on turn my equities and EV go way down and I should have folded that card.

I realize I can get the flop info by removing the turn and river cards. But once I do that and get the real EV on my flop decision, I need to re-enter the board if I want to fine-tune some later streets.

Or, I start building my lines with a know flop (all decisions till a possible showdown). I wish to see how would the Kh on turn and Qs on the river work for me -> my flop decision EV now gets recalculated even though I didn't know those cards were going to come. Also I forget what my EV and equities were on the flop, so I remove the cards and recalculate on flop cards only.

Some of this can be handled by the layer system, but I find it a bit tough to use.

I hope I got my idea through; I certainly have a lousy track record on that lately on the 2+2 sw forum As I said, this would be more useful for tracking how the equities are affected by certain cards, but I can see some merit for the line EV analysis also.

Thank you bro. Is there going to be an option to import ranges from flopzilla?

There's no automated way of doing that, no. This is because it's not possible to know which nodes should be getting which range.

It ís (sort of) possible to do this manually though.

In Flopzilla, you can get the string form of the preflop matrix by clicking the "range" button in the upper left of the matrix. You can import that in CardRunnersEV in the preflop menu by clicking the "Text input/output" button.

To get a string for what's in the "statistics" section in Flopzilla, press Ctrl+Alt+T (this toggle is also in the menu under "Commands"). You can import that in CardRunnersEV's postflop menu in the "holecards" section by clicking the "Range" button.

@pasita
I'll have to give some more thought to your feature suggestion at some later point.
Right now I'm extremely busy with the beta and I don't want to get too distracted.
I've put your post on my to-do list.

Oh thanks.

Also how come Strategy EV works only SB vs BB? On your site you said that it is the only relevant case, how come? To me it seems relevant pretty much in every case.

Sure, wasn't really expecting it done by tomorrow If you find any part of the description above unclear let me know, I could make the specs a bit more clear I guess.