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Old 03-16-2008, 01:11 PM   #1
scylla
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CardRunnersEV

This is the support thread for CardRunnersEV, which is hand EV analysis software.

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 06-22-2011 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:12 PM   #2
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

.

Last edited by _dave_; 09-12-2008 at 07:28 PM. Reason: obsolete
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:44 PM   #3
GaryTheGoat
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

scylla,

Thanks for the new release. I'm having a lot of fun with this software. Keep up the good work.

Nice improvements. Can't wait to try 'em!

Thanks again,

gTg
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:51 PM   #4
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Nice to hear you're enjoying the software Gary.
If you have any questions/remarks/suggestions I'd love to hear them.

Cheers,

Scylla

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryTheGoat View Post
scylla,

Thanks for the new release. I'm having a lot of fun with this software. Keep up the good work.

Nice improvements. Can't wait to try 'em!

Thanks again,

gTg
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:05 PM   #5
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Hi there,

When I try things out I am seeing the EV for each individual decision. How do I see the total EV for the hand?
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Old 03-18-2008, 02:07 AM   #6
Narcis13
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Scylla,

Good piece of software ...anyway..congrats..
...I tried to model a steal attempt scenario but i would like the program emulates tons of flops for me to evaluate the entire tree not only preflop...
I must insert myself cards into the flop anf after this i run it... Is it possible ?

Thank you!
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:52 AM   #7
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcis13 View Post
Scylla,

Good piece of software ...anyway..congrats..
...I tried to model a steal attempt scenario but i would like the program emulates tons of flops for me to evaluate the entire tree not only preflop...
I must insert myself cards into the flop anf after this i run it... Is it possible ?

Thank you!
Just click on the Flop button and enter the flop.
Is that what you meant?

If you need an example, just tell me what you want to do and if my schedule allows it I'll make it and put up a pic.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:56 AM   #8
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by megatron View Post
Hi there,

When I try things out I am seeing the EV for each individual decision. How do I see the total EV for the hand?
Whenever you are involved in a pokerhand you're always faced with decisions. How much money you make at poker is decided by the quality of your actions. That is why every decision has an EV.
It also means that your EV can only be calculated for your decisions.

I'm not sure what you mean by EV for the hand. Could you be a bit more specific?
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:09 AM   #9
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Ok i will be more explicit....

So i am Button and i attempt to steal with lets say top 30% of hands...SB fold and BB defend with top 20% but with QQ+ and AK reraise me all in and i will call with KK+ and AKs.
Post flop he put me all in if he hit at least top pair and i will call with at least midle pair , also if he check i will shove 75% of the time. I am shortstack ..lets say 20$ for 100NL and BB has full stack of 100$.
How can i model this? Is it possible to do without a specific flop manually entered?
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:47 AM   #10
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcis13 View Post
Ok i will be more explicit....

So i am Button and i attempt to steal with lets say top 30% of hands...SB fold and BB defend with top 20% but with QQ+ and AK reraise me all in and i will call with KK+ and AKs.
Post flop he put me all in if he hit at least top pair and i will call with at least midle pair , also if he check i will shove 75% of the time. I am shortstack ..lets say 20$ for 100NL and BB has full stack of 100$.
How can i model this? Is it possible to do without a specific flop manually entered?
Absolutely, I've added the pic below



Notice the stop action if the flop goes check check and you don't do the blufshove. I'm asuming that you've given up in that case. The stop action will end the hand and let no one win the pot.

If you have another question let me know!

If you would like this savefile mail me at stoxpoker_ev@hotmail.com and I'll mail it to you. I don't think it's possible to share files at this forum.

Last edited by scylla; 03-18-2008 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:53 PM   #11
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Tyvm!

Good job!

So...in this scenario attempting to steal blinds will gime me on average 1.25$... not bad...
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:26 PM   #12
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcis13 View Post
Tyvm!

Good job!

So...in this scenario attempting to steal blinds will gime me on average 1.25$... not bad...
No problem.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:50 PM   #13
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Wow this is one piece of ugly but amazing software!
This is very very well thought out. Awesome job. I'll definitely pay big bucks for this.
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Old 03-18-2008, 08:52 PM   #14
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Whenever you are involved in a pokerhand you're always faced with decisions. How much money you make at poker is decided by the quality of your actions. That is why every decision has an EV.
It also means that your EV can only be calculated for your decisions.

I'm not sure what you mean by EV for the hand. Could you be a bit more specific?
I understand each decision has an EV.

EV for the hand was a poor choice of expression. I meant the EV for a particular street when the play had several conditions placed upon it. Each condition has a different EV calculation associated with it but I'm assuming the EV calculation that takes all (let's say 3) conditions into consideration is the one that is placed right before everything branches out into the 3 options.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:20 PM   #15
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by megatron View Post
I understand each decision has an EV.

EV for the hand was a poor choice of expression. I meant the EV for a particular street when the play had several conditions placed upon it. Each condition has a different EV calculation associated with it but I'm assuming the EV calculation that takes all (let's say 3) conditions into consideration is the one that is placed right before everything branches out into the 3 options.
Ok, after you do an EV run just hover over the action or condition your interested in.
The EV of the individual action/condition will be shown in a popup.
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:31 PM   #16
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Ok, after you do an EV run just hover over the action or condition your interested in.
The EV of the individual action/condition will be shown in a popup.
Thanks, I have it sussed now.
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:00 PM   #17
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

A great piece of software and I for one will be buying it.

I'm messing around with it at the moment and one thing I've noticed is that the tree can quickly get very complicated and before you know it there's branches going everywhere. I find that there's variuos lines I'm taking that could apply to other parts of the tree but I have to enter all the data all over again. If there was a way to pick a point and save the line from that point onwards and apply it to other parts of the tree that would save allot of time.
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:15 PM   #18
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

At this point it's not possible to copy a whole branch of a tree. There's problems because I can't just accept a whole bunch of actions at the same time, the tree could become unstable.

There is however a cut-copy-paste option for conditions and actions. Also you can copy multiple conditions at a time by using the quickselect menu.

Turn on hints and hover over the actions and conditions to see how to do that. It's included in the next manual too. I forgot it until now somehow.

Does that help anything?

PS: 1.0.6 will be out tomorrow. 1.0.5 has some problems with crashing with very big trees because of memory problems. That's gone in 1.0.6.

EDIT: Oh, if possible, could you send me your savefile and a short explanation of where you need this copying of a whole branch? I won't do something with it right now, but in time it may give me inspiration to find a solution for the problem. stoxpoker_ev@hotmail.com. Thanks!
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:06 PM   #19
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Thanks for the reply. Looking at the tree i refered to again it wouldn't be possible to use the exact same in another spot because there would be only 2rather than 3 players in the decision. Would it be possible though to change a player from a call to fold and then remove all there actions from the tree without having to re enter it all.

For instance if I'm on the BT and i raise and i do a tree where both blinds call. I finish the tree all the way to the river and calcuate the EV. Now i want to know the EV if the SB had folded. It would be handy if there was an option to change his call to a fold but still use the same assumptions for the BT and BB for the rest of the hand. Ok the hand could have been played different with the SB in it but rather than do a whole new tree with the SB folding it would be nice and quick to use the same assumptions.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:35 PM   #20
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

The problem is that if you make such a drastic step somewhere at the start of the tree everything behind it is dramatically affected. Potsizes, betsizes, reactions to if for instanse performs some action in the hand, suddenly a fold is a showdown, etc. It's going to cause a lot of situations that are unsolvable or near unsolvable.
And even if this is not the case in some special situation, it's just near impossible to write an algorithm that can tell the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdundee View Post
Thanks for the reply. Looking at the tree i refered to again it wouldn't be possible to use the exact same in another spot because there would be only 2rather than 3 players in the decision. Would it be possible though to change a player from a call to fold and then remove all there actions from the tree without having to re enter it all.

For instance if I'm on the BT and i raise and i do a tree where both blinds call. I finish the tree all the way to the river and calcuate the EV. Now i want to know the EV if the SB had folded. It would be handy if there was an option to change his call to a fold but still use the same assumptions for the BT and BB for the rest of the hand. Ok the hand could have been played different with the SB in it but rather than do a whole new tree with the SB folding it would be nice and quick to use the same assumptions.
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:25 AM   #21
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Ok, I'm done with 1.0.6.
Problem is I'm having trouble putting it online.


For now:

A
I've put it on megaupload: http://www.megaupload.com/nl/?d=VAAI9FG4
But this is only a limited amount of downloads;

B
You can add me on msn and I'll filetransfer it to you. For some reason the connection is slow and it'll take about 30 minutes for a transfer. stoxpoker_ev@hotmail.com

C
I could mail it, PM me your mail adress.

Any other suggestions for making a file available?

I'll make an official release statement when the file is on the site. For now know that ALL known bugs have been fixed (even the hard ones) and the manual contains some new items.

Good luck with it!

Scylla
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:22 AM   #22
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.5 released***

Stoxpoker EV beta 1.0.6 release

You can download the latest version here:
http://mediaserver2.stoxpoker.com:80...toxev1_0_6.msi


Bugfixes:
- Solved memory management issues. Large trees shouldn't crash anymore now.
- There were problems if certain numbers got huge, for instance >1 million runs with large betsizes. It's gone now.
- Due to a previous "bugfix" >=tp and >=mp accepted any pocket pair
- Solved some more issues with one and two pair types of hands. That part of the code is very complex. I think I got them all. It was not fun.
- File management has improved. You can now put your savefiles anywhere.

Improvements:
- Installer instead of the winrar nightmare! Standard installation directory: C:/program files/stoxpoker/stoxEVbeta1.0.6
- "Add condition" back to previous single-click method. Sorry for the inconvenience in 1.0.5!
- Manual now includes sections on the new custom conditions menu (See "New")
- Manual now includes explanation of ctrl+c,ctrl+v,ctrl+x,ctrl+z, etc
- Tournament ICM model strongly improved. Much more acurate.
- Range input in the postflop menu now accepts input like 77+, KJ-, etc.
- Default conditions are now called "all hands". Finally a name that I'm satisfied with.
- There is now a link to the manual in the program. It's in the menu under Help->Start manual.


And for my next performance ...
Pffff, it's been quite a week. These were the last vital changes that I felt the program really couldn't do without. Many of these changes will perhaps not even be noticed by some users but having a program will all sorts of hidden flaws in it is just not acceptable in my opinion. I have some ideas of where to go next, rest assured I'm not done developing, but I finally have a version that I'm satisfied with.

And now for the scary part ...
The video manual.
Yes, I'll be making a video about the product demonstrating how to use it and pointing out the most common mistakes new users make.
Stagefright!
Scary scary stuff ..
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Old 03-23-2008, 01:21 PM   #23
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.6 released***

I've encountered a possible bug when doing some SB v BB All in or fold situations. If i pick say the top 50% of hands for the SB and then the BB calls with the top 25% this produces a total EV for the SB and BB combined of $15 which is correct as the blinds are $5/$10. The problem is when i add a fold action for the SB for the times he doesn't have a top 50% hand, the BB EV doesn't increase and the combined EV for the SB and BB is now just $10. The SB folds are not been counted towards the BB EV.

I tried to take a screenshot but i can't seem to paste it here. It should be easy recreate anyway.
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Old 03-23-2008, 01:58 PM   #24
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.6 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdundee View Post
I've encountered a possible bug when doing some SB v BB All in or fold situations. If i pick say the top 50% of hands for the SB and then the BB calls with the top 25% this produces a total EV for the SB and BB combined of $15 which is correct as the blinds are $5/$10. The problem is when i add a fold action for the SB for the times he doesn't have a top 50% hand, the BB EV doesn't increase and the combined EV for the SB and BB is now just $10. The SB folds are not been counted towards the BB EV.

I tried to take a screenshot but i can't seem to paste it here. It should be easy recreate anyway.
The tree branches off into two subbranches.
The first branch, the one where sb raises all in, is the same from the bb's perspective as the first situation. He's facing the top 50% from the sb in both cases, therefore he has the same EV.

In the second branch the SB folds, which comes down to an EV of 0 for him.
The sb's ev for his decision is calculated as 50% of the EV for the first situation + 50% for the fold of 0 EV.
If you were to add up the money as it flows through the tree it all adds up.


You can still check to see the money adding up to $15 in the first branch by the way. Hover over the raise to 200 action for the SB and check out the EV for that. Thát's the sb's EV for his raise action. Add the EV for the BB in the first branch and you get 15 (asuming rake is 0%).
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:40 PM   #25
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 1.0.6 released***

Something strange here: EV calculation won't run because of this error (I'm trying to run it from the flop onwards).

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