sample size ...

Do you guys know where are the comments?
I saw some of comments were deleted

I was expecting the deletions
check the 3 screenshots here. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...my-me-1097121/

Yourdoom -

First of all, I respect you as a coach and as a poker player. Period. I'm sure you're a good player, and you're probably a very good coach as well. Kudos on your poker achievements.

However, people have noticed things,and asked some important questions in this thread. Actually, I seconded someone else's questions and have long tried to NOT say anything in your thread, despite lingering questions that MANY others posed re: new accounts giving reviews for your services with new sign up dates that sound suspiciously like your writing, as well as some other issues that might prompt some to post. Despite offering a "competing service" I've never jumped in on any of this out of respect for you, and because I think the quality of my service and my reviews have never been in doubt, and stand on their own two legs.

However, I think you should answer the questions people have posed about spamming, reviews, and deleting posts. Certainly it's overtly DISRESPECTFUL to another forum member (or more than one) who has done nothing to you to delete their post, especially when it was asking simple, answerable questions. I, too, pay for my listing, and have never deleted a post, or considered it. In fact, I never knew you could. If you have good answers, fine, I really don't want to give you or anyone else a hard time. Really, I can guarantee you that I will be the first to accept honest answers or explanations.

Here are the questions:

1) Did you delete my questions or anyone else's re: your spamming PTR walls of often-looked up players?
2) If so, why?
3) Have you ever made up reviews on gimmick accounts? And if not, why do you have so few reviews/graphs/testimonials from the 50 + students you say you have?
4) Since there's significant suspicion, you can easily prove this with IP addresses with the help of 2+2, no?
5) Would you please re-post my original post as well as those of other forum members in their entirety? They are valid and "feedback" on your services and practices is important for perspective clients, I think.

Here's the bottom line: Someone asked some questions that are reasonable about some tactics you may or may not have been employing including spamming, making up reviews, and deleting posts that are probably considered by most to be unsavory. The circumstances made me curious enough to say something, and so I posted for the first time in your thread. If you can answer the questions people have posed honestly, fine, I don't need or want to get into any sort of issue or tin-foil theories. I have plenty of happy students, and I don't need or want to drag you through the mud. I've never jumped into any accusations from other threads about you making gimmick accounts with reviews, or anything of the sort before out of respect and a sense that it wasn't my place. But once I see my comment deleted, I'm increasingly worried something off is happening.

I think it's fair to say that you should answer the questions that have been posed, and let everyone know what's up.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

Harry

Hi Harry,

Thank you for the complements

I will now answer all of your and everyone's questions.

1) Have you ever made up reviews on gimmick accounts?

I addressed this in post #46 of this thread already, but in case anyone missed it, I will re-address it now...

Absolutely not. 100% of my feedback is completely legit and is from actual students.

All of the feedback here has been left bc the student went out of his way on his own time to say something positive about his experience...

Other coaches make 2+2 feedback a requirement of their agreement. I do not. I only ask people to do it as a favor whenever I remember. Some students prefer to keep their sceennames confidential and I respect that.

I've now coached over 60 students to this point and if any of them have had a negative experience with my coaching then I'll invite them to say so in this thread. But there's a reason that you don't see any kind of negative feedback here.

Character, honesty, quality and integrity are the benchmarks of my coaching business.

I have just PMed the 2+2 mods and will ask them again now publically to please verify each and every IP address from every single review in this thread.

Hopefully once that report is available, this issue will be settled.


2) Yes, I write comments on PTR under the user name "Your Doom." Even though the user name is "Your Doom" for 100% transparency I also signed the comments "YourDoom from PokerStars" just to make sure everyone knew it was me. I felt it should be clear that that is me and my account, and didn't think that I even needed to respond to the question of if I wrote those comments.


3) As we've just discussed on Skype, I did not delete anything that you've ever written in my 2+2 thread. I believe that the mods must of thought it was spam and deleted it by mistake. I cc'ed you on my post to the mods this morning. Once you receive the response about exactly what happened, i'll ask you to please confirm here that I did not ever request that any of your posts ever be deleted from my 2+2 thread.


Hopefully that clears everything up

Ryan

Ryan -

I can accept that it was an honest mistake that my post was deleted if/when the mods come on and say so. While it made me very angry, I do understand that it may have had nothing to do with you, or thinkitthrough.

However, why are you in the practice of deleting people's posts on your thread? Really, why should that be allowed in the forum to begin with? As we discussed on skype today, that is basically censoring the feedback/questions you get, and it gives an inaccurate picture of how people may or may not feel about your services. Speaking from experience, it's especially strange to ME because I've had a coaching listing for a very, very long time and I've never even considered deleting something from it. You mentioned you'd done it before in our skype conversation. I think that begs the question of how often you've done it, and why you've done it?
A second point: For your own sake, it would be helpful if you answered the content of what people were asking, rather than just attacking their character or calling them trolls. Frankly, I don't think the questions I saw in the past were trolling. And, more importantly, I'm not a troll and I had some of the same questions that you "deleted" as the musings and ramblings of trolls.

In moving forward, it seems that 3 things need to happen to clear the air.

1) The IP addresses are verified as being unique for your reviews. This is obviously very important, and from what I understand it isn't too difficult to do.
2) I'm waiting on an explanation for why my post was deleted. Obviously if it was inadvertent, mistakes happen and that's fine. As I mentioned to you, OTHER people pm'd me and asked why my post was deleted, and so THEY were interested.
3) You should provide an explanation for why the other posts were deleted showing your PTR spam from the other night. Considering you acknowledged doing it (under your own name, to your credit) and presumably don't see anything wrong with it, why did you delete the screen shots showing that you'd done that?
4) Lastly, why don't you commit to not deleting any posts/questions in the future so that people can get a full, uncensored version of the feedback and questions about your product. Just answer them AND provide proof as best you can. Maybe you have to do it a number of times. That's a small price to pay to put people's mind at ease. For the money you're charging, that seems to be the least you can do, especially given the coaching fiascos that have gone on in the last 2 years. Seems easy enough to do in order to put any questions people may have to rest.

Fair enough?

revlis post seems to suggest you admitted del my post on skype. in my other thread you are telling me a mod del them


Which is it???

so far no mod has taken responsibility about the del or pmed me.

I think it's fair to give Ryan some time to respond, especially because some of the answers may lie with the mods who may be pre-occupied. So, while I have some questions I'd like answered, and you clearly do too, let's avoid jumping on him before the "authorities" chime and and explain what did and didn't happen.

sure thing chief

Someone asked me about faking reviews earlier. I addressed it. Even though there is no basis whatsoever to ever accuse me of faking information or lying at all, it still continues. Even after the 2+2 mods PROVE (hopefully shortly) all the reviews are 100% legit, I'm sure ppl will still ask about it...


When people write completely unfounded slanderous accusations about me in my own thread, these are my options:

1) Take action against their account by filing a complaint with 2+2

2) Respond to/defend against every crazy troll question/comment in my thread

3) Politely ask the Mod to delete it from my thread (I don't have the power to delete anything here myself - I send a request to the Mod, who deems it spam and then deletes it)

I've never done #1, I try to avoid #2, and I've done #3 exactly three times. nilaynilay, no offence intended but your post just looked liked nonsense to me and appeared to just be an unfounded attack on me and my very reputable business based on nothing.
Why exactly would you care what I write and sign my name to on PTR?

I've never ever ever had negative feedback of me or my products deleted from this thread. There's never been negative feedback of my coaching or course ever posted in this thread or anywhere else to my knowledge.

nilaynilay, no offence intended but your post just looked liked nonsense to me and appeared to just be an unfounded attack on me and my very reputable business based on nothing.
Why exactly would you care what I write and sign my name to on PTR?


i dont care about your personally. i do care if a coach is using ptr wall of most searched players to redirect traffic to this facebook. This is something i dont want buried in the carpet and all i wanted was a simple reply from you.

The way you have gone about it leaves no doubt in my mind as your motives. you have not yet alluded to why all 3 posts were made at exact same time.
If this was just normal you should have had no issues just saying so in your coaching thread. and if i am just wrong why get paranoid and request a admin to del the posts?

just post a one liner on why you posted and that would have just settled it. everyone would be free to draw there own conclusions.

Ryan, as a coach the burden of proof is on you. Just as I told you on skype. You did not address it by saying "I didn't do that." You address it by providing proof, which we're waiting for. I can assure you that I would certainly rush to your defense if the mods confirmed that all of the IP addresses were different on the reviews, and people still made that accusation that the reviews were gimmick accounts. That would be unfair. If there's a good reason my post was deleted, or if it was simply an accident, I can accept that and move on. I'd rather be grinding than playing forum games. I don't think I've ever really done this since I joined 2+2 in 2005.

But until then, you haven't provided any proof -- you've only made a statement. For the umpteenth time, I actually think it's unlikely that you made up reviews. I am 99.99 sure that you are really, really good at poker. Probably better than me, in fact. Your results speak for themselves. I just found it bizarre when I got a PM from a random 2+2er last night asking why my post was deleted. When I looked and it was gone, I got angry.

As you know, starting months ago other people (not me) questioned your references and reviews. You call them trolls, but many of your reviews have very low post counts and very recent join dates. And the "trolls" who asked questions of you have been on 2+2 for longer than the people you're citing as reviewing your coaching. In many cases many more posts, and many more years of 2+2 membership.

I only really got involved because I was upset about my post being deleted. But now I AM upset, both by what I perceive as your continued dishonesty (about your motivations for posting on the 3 most looked @ PTR walls at the same time...c'mon) and at the conversation we had on skype this morning in which you made accusations towards me (which you're free to post here) which were totally, 100% off-base (and provably off-base). Basically our conversation felt like an attempt to get me to drop the issue and let other "lesser known" 2+2ers get steamrolled.

Here's what I'm trying to convey to you: If you want to defend your product, you should do so in an honest and objective way that answers skeptics, no matter who they are, rather than silencing or dismissing them. Just say "hey, I was bored and decided to spam PTR to advertise my coaching." Big deal, LOL. In the case of the reviews question, you need to provide hard facts rather than statements. Instead of saying you have 60 happy students paying $400/hour for your services, ask them kindly at the end of a couple of hours to write something positive about the experience they had with you. Nobody requires students to do that, but asking a student after teaching and pouring time in for 6 hours to write something positive if they've gotten something worth the money out of coaching seems reasonable. I freely admit that I do this, and I think that's why I haven't had a single problem of this sort in my coaching thread.

Whether I feel like I should have to or not, I'm willing to do everything in my power to answer people's concerns with concrete evidence of my identity, results, etc. whether it's video chat images of my passport (did that yesterday with someone because it's what they wanted) or well known 2+2ers references. You have to be willing to go the extra mile in order to gain people's trust for the kind of money people are putting up for your services. The worst thing you can do is be dismissive, which is what it feels like to people - whether that was your intent or not. Assuming everything is on the up and up, the unfortunate result of this attitude is that the problem has festered and now you have a coaching thread full of controversy when in all likelihood, the proof you provide will show that it should be promoting your considerable achievements.

All that said, once this is cleared up and if the proof/answers to all the questions are provided, I will be the first one to say that Ryan is obviously a hell of a poker player, and probably a pretty damn good coach/investment that I admittedly have considered hiring myself in order to improve my own game.

Harry

As you wish. I'm really looking forward to the 2+2 mod's report to verify that all of my feedback is 100% legit. If I had known that this was even an option, I would of done it months ago!



I like those odds. Thank you.


When the posts prove to be 100% legit feedback. What difference does it make if someone has one 2+2 post or 5000? Why are my low post students (who don't really use 2+2 very much) opinion's less important than those who do? (you don't really have to respond, I'm just making a point)


Again, I've never seen your other post nor would have ever known it ever existed if you hadn't brought it up. Still waiting to hear back from the forum cop on that one.


Obviously if someone reads a comment that I made and happens to find me through it, that's nice for me. Similar to if I post an opinion in a strategy thread on 2+2 and someone sees "See my coaching listing" and then comes and finds this thread.

On this topic, I will soon also be starting a blog, location TBD. And will soon be doing a Skype interview w Pokernews.com! Yes, all designed to get my name out there. Details to follow...




Great feedback. Thank you. I'm going to start doing this much more often.



Thank you for your honesty. Like I said earlier I've been keeping the fact that you approached me for potential help with your own game private for the past 7 months.

Once I found out that you were a 2+2 coach charging a similar rate, I was concerned at first that you were "scamming" me with a fake inquiry for information, but you cleared that up this morning in our Skype conversation. I believe that you were truly interested in possibly taking poker lessons from me.

Regardless, I did not reveal to anyone that you approached me for lessons, as I felt it may be harmful to your business.

And even though you're a direct competitor of mine, I have too much integrity to attack and to try to discredit other coaches on this site.

Live and let live is my motto.

Here we go again...

You wrote:

When the posts prove to be 100% legit feedback. What difference does it make if someone has one 2+2 post or 5000? Why are my low post students (who don't really use 2+2 very much) opinion's less important than those who do?

--

That is exactly MY point, but you've decided that people are trolls on what basis exactly? Because they ask you questions that you don't want to answer? Post count? Join date? So when that happens, you have their questions, comments, or suspicions deleted instead of answering them? What exactly was wrong with the PTR screen shots that went up, anyway? What made them "trolling" your thread? Seems like Ryan didn't like, so he deleted. Period. That's wrong. And, while it's a topic for a separate day, it's wrong for it to be forum policy to have coaches allowed to do that.

--

In addition, you said:

Thank you for your honesty. Like I said earlier I've been keeping the fact that you approached me for potential help with your own game private for the past 7 months.

Once I found out that you were a 2+2 coach charging a similar rate, I was concerned at first that you were "scamming" me with a fake inquiry for information, but you cleared that up this morning in our Skype conversation. I believe that you were truly interested in possibly taking poker lessons from me.

----

Fact: I have taken coaching in many forms from as many high level coaches as possible in order to improve the product I offer my students, as well as my own results. I've PM'd Jungleman (though he didn't respond) and many guys who are among the best regarded players in the world that charge several hundred dollars an hour on here who have all done hours and hours of coaching, theory discussion, and hand history analysis with me. You were one of a handful, and if the conversation had gone past one initial PM and my not pursuing it (not the other way around) then obviously you would have known exactly who I was. You know that, and that's how it went with every single other guy I've worked with.

Be real: You are not and were never doing me a "favor" by not "revealing" that I sent you one PM many months ago about doing some coaching. There was nothing to reveal. In fact, it would be GOOD for my business for my students to know that I am continually investing in my product and investing in new perspectives and knowledge.

Here is the fact: You actually did quite the opposite. In your post, you made clearly negative references to my coaching (which you acknowledged this morning) in order to promote yourself in your advertisement by trying to make "certain coaches" who charge suspiciously similar rates to me (not more than a handful) look like inferior choices to you.

You claim that "I have too much integrity to attack and to try to discredit other coaches on this site."

Oh, really? This morning, the following exchange took place on Skype. Perhaps you could clear it up.

[12:01:32 PM] Me: In my post, I said that I believed your product was good, and your skills were high level.
[12:01:47 PM] Me: Despite you essentially calling me a "mediocre midsteaks coach" charging $325/hour.
[12:01:54 PM] Me: lol
[12:02:04 PM] Ryan D: i obv did not call YOU that
[12:02:09 PM] Ryan D: directly
[12:02:11 PM] Ryan D: haha
[12:02:16 PM] Me: Who else plays midstakes and charges $325 an hour
[12:02:25 PM] Me: Have some intellectual honesty
[12:02:27 PM] Ryan D: thinkitthrough

So, were you calling me a mediocre midstakes coach, or your partner (thinkitthrough) in making this joint-venture video a mediocre mistakes coach charging $325/hour. If It's me, my results would disagree. If it's your partner in this video deal you have going, I don't know why you chose to work with him.

Ryan, really ask yourself: Are you being intellectually honest, or showing any integrity here? Aren't those the benchmarks of your business? It sure seems you're doing exactly what you claim to be too honorable to engage in.

---

I hope the moderators can clear up the reviews, and I will accept that resolution if/when it happens publicly. Again, I think the reviews probably ARE real. Or at least the majority of them, because I'm sure you're a good player, given your results. I am mainly suspicious of the first two reviews, to be honest, where the join dates were both in February, right when you listing went up. But if all's well and good and the mods say so, I'll accept without hesitation.

In addition, I'm still waiting for a good explanation as to why my post last night was deleted. I will accept that as well 100% if/when it comes, as I've told you. It's been a full day now. Hopefully there's a resolution and explanation soon.

I don't understand what the big deal is here.

I've had three lessons with YourDoom and he is a very good coach that can bring a ton of positive influences to your game. He's a really great guy too and goes above and beyond what he's getting paid for. For example, the first lesson I took from him occurred in a lesson format I wasn't used to so he went out of his way answering more comments on my hands off-the-clock just to make sure that I understood all the concepts he was conveying.

This is just a plain witch hunt. What's the big deal if YourDoom decides to market his coaching a bit? I don't see any problem with it at all. In fact, I find it completely normal.

He enjoys coaching and is good at it so he should be allowed to advertise his services in any way he chooses. If you don't like the fact he advertises his coaching, fine... don't sign up for his lessons but it's really disrespectful to create this negative energy for no legitimate reason.