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'Westworld' remake - possible new HBO series 'Westworld' remake - possible new HBO series

10-20-2016 , 02:01 PM
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/fi...nted-westworld

for nunnehi and maybe some others
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10-20-2016 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/fi...nted-westworld

for nunnehi and maybe some others


What's going on with Westworld is different from trying to make too much out of dolls in True Detective S1 or whatever. Most of the points people are theorizing about here and elsewhere are necessarily going to end up being essential to the plot.

Also I hate it when someone implies Lost was intended to be an emotional show about characters from the beginning. Obviously the mysteries were meant to be the primary attraction. And many of them actually were answered, just in a lazy unsatisfying way.
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10-20-2016 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/fi...nted-westworld

for nunnehi and maybe some others
That is a bad article, and the author should feel bad. The whole culture (and I am not one trying to present theories as I just enjoy the show, so much as coming back at when I think a theory is wrong with what it *could* mean) is based on what LOST did to viewers. It's like the guy's like, "wait, what happened to the art?" What happened to the art was twist culture. If you put a mystery in a show, human nature is going to want to solve it. That's why people can look at a piece of s*** show like Homeland and come up with a bunch of theories that turn out to mean nothing, because it's a poorly told straightforward show. That's why a guy like Sam Esmail, who thinks he's a sooper genius, is disappointed when he laid out a long path to a twist, and a bunch of Sooners solved it in the first episode. It's because the writing is leading you down a path. If it turns out there's no path, it's almost like the writers pulled one over on the audience. The twist was that there was no twist. Spoiler alert, audiences don't like this kind of stuff. It diminishes the enjoyment of just watching. That's part of why shows like Stranger Things (that have actual mysteries) have such large audiences. They aren't bogging you down in the mystery, they're telling a story and you're having fun watching it unfold.

Most people don't like thinking when they watch television. All shows that start out with mysteries that don't pay off erode massive amounts of viewers quickly in the wake of all the time people felt they wasted with LOST. It's important to note that people tried over and over to re-create the formula of LOST, and most of those copies tended to focus on the mysteries rather than the characters. People have tried to re-create Cheers on the comedy side, and it just has never been able to get there. There are lots of shows that made it okay, but nothing has ever been at that level again, and we're nearly 25 years removed from Cheers' last episode.

I don't know how familiar you are with his work, but David Mamet has done a series of great movies about con games. In those movies, one of the most fun things about them was watching them unravel, and showing us what we should be looking for (why The Sixth Sense was such a phenomenon when it came out). When you see several movies in a row from someone like that, you're pre-conditioned to think all of his movies are going to be like that. Spartan was a movie he made in 2004 that was filled with a bunch of wild potential mysteries. It turned out it was as straightforward movie, and it took 4 viewings, looking for various angles, to realize that. This was before LOST.

I'm a person who works in a creative field. My intent when creating something is what matters, sorry it's the truth (that's why you have to be extremely careful with what you put into your work or it can make you look bad [a good example is the doll thing from TD season 1]). The audience can take it wherever they want, but that doesn't mean it's the correct interpretation. If you actually think Nolan wants you to only be thinking of the ethics of this show and isn't actually reveling in the idea of showing all these various mysteries for people to latch on to, I don't know what to tell you. It's an interactive fantasy place, where whatever you think is up to you. He and his wife have put a framework in place ("is this right or is this wrong?", "what's real and what isn't?", with various other things added along the way that aren't up for debate), and everything else in it is up to you. This is a liberating experience for a TV watcher, because it doesn't matter what the meaning is in all the little moments (and you should expect no answers on those little things), only the concrete stuff matters. And guess what, we don't know what stuff is concrete *yet*. Jonathan Nolan is a master storyteller in the TV series format. This isn't some Oscar winning screenwriter (The Night Of) who's tapped out and always wanted to tell a story in his own way (proving why screenwriters aren't the last person in a creative process). This is a guy who wants to pull his core audience in and hug them close. In his other show, he made you feel like a surveillance camera was a real person. That's a gift. He knows what he's doing in relation to TV storytelling, and he's in a format that should bring what he's really capable of out in many fewer episodes than his other show that was outstanding start to finish under the massive constraints of CBS and network television.

As I said, I can't stand when people write stupid s*** like that article trying to act like they "get it", and you're doing it wrong. This whole thing is a product of LOST, and it's led to an obsession of tricking the audience because it's so damn smart. They let the genie out of the bottle, and now everyone's like "hey hey wait a minute, can't we just watch?" The answer is no, no matter how hard you try. Networks, cable channels, and makers encourage this kind of stuff. The audiences almost never like it, but once you put mysteries or strange stuff in your show, human nature's going to take over and people are going to try to solve it.

My personal thought is that Nolan and Joy (probably more Nolan than Joy) are playing into that to give the audience a richer experience. For the big stuff, it's always going to be one answer. For the small stuff, it can be whatever the f*** you want.
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10-21-2016 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem
Are you agreeing with the two blog posts you submitted?

Or are you just trying to troll Nun? At least he took the time to write up a response.

I don't understand what you're doing / saying...
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10-21-2016 , 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by StringerB
Are you agreeing with the two blog posts you submitted?

Or are you just trying to troll Nun? At least he took the time to write up a response.

I don't understand what you're doing / saying...
Yes and yes
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10-21-2016 , 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by El Diablo
Yes, you can have your way with the hosts in terms of sex and violence..." uhhhh yeah I think that would be plenty popular to lots of people!
Seems half right. Are there really a bunch of people out there that would enjoy the ability to violently assault other humans? The sex part of course makes sense.
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10-21-2016 , 12:31 PM
what happens if a guest goes completely off the rails? starts walking around naked? killing every host in sight? vandalizing the park? these are the kinds of things i want to know the answers to. i find the park itself and the rules about it more interesting than the plot
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10-21-2016 , 12:56 PM
There's only room for one SK in this world, don't be "that" guy. Your troll game is awful. You are bad, and should feel bad (I gave up on you a long time ago, so not sure why I bothered here). If you agree with those authors, you're the problem. The first guy has wrong reasons, but reasons for his thoughts. The other guy is an idiot. It's not like you live in a vacuum, or it's the 1600s or something. It's the show creators' faults for playing into audience expectations and creating mysteries. I think it's hilarious that you don't think Nolan is giving you the ability to think whatever you want about the small stuff without being wrong. He's with the audience, not against them. He also knows a certain amount of mystery is necessary for this type of story.

By the way, didn't know you were a right winger, so it makes a whole lot of stuff make sense for me about you now. Good job on getting me to click on bulls***, I hope you got paid for it.
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10-21-2016 , 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
Seems half right. Are there really a bunch of people out there that would enjoy the ability to violently assault other humans? The sex part of course makes sense.
But they aren't humans, they are robots

People right now use video games to do all sorts of violent stuff to digital avatars of other humans, or to pieces of code that appear human

I don't see why this is any sort of stretch
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10-21-2016 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunnehi
don't be "that" guy. Your troll game is awful. You are bad, and should feel bad

By the way, didn't know you were a right winger
for someone that tosses around accusations like that, you sure use rhetoric like the donald
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10-21-2016 , 02:32 PM
rofl, you are so terrible. Consider yourself erased from my response drive.
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10-21-2016 , 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunnehi
rofl, you are so terrible. Consider yourself erased from my response drive.
Sad!
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10-21-2016 , 05:17 PM
nunnehi, RE: Dolores, I just get the feeling the park/Bernard/Ford are not really paying direct attention to these minor iterations of Dolores' day (i.e. whether she gets dragged into the barn or whether she falls on Williams lap after the commotion at the farmhouse), if they change slightly or not. I think the implication is that it's more organic than that.
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10-21-2016 , 05:26 PM
That stuff is based on interaction, so it would likely largely be somewhat improvised within a framework. In the case of her waking up, she always wakes up the same way, she always does the same things, and always walks past her father saying the same things. Every one of those beats would have been programmed (you still have to build in the moments that the player doesn't play in a video game), but since there's no interaction, they would always be the same. That's why I think the gun could have been removed in an update vs. it actually being there now.

I think it's most likely we're seeing old memories coming back (since the simulations are very similar in a lot of cases), instead of new stuff forming. Of course, the man in black or whoever's running her could be adding in some easter eggs to mess with the hosts. If the man in black is a real guy, that's interaction. If he's not, then there's obviously something more to what he's doing. Needless to say, someone is depositing easter eggs/trinkets for the hosts to find (we've seen a minimum of two instances of this). Whether that person (or not person) is telling them about these objects and then wiping them (with the intent of recalling that memory subtly later) is to be determined.
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10-21-2016 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
Seems half right. Are there really a bunch of people out there that would enjoy the ability to violently assault other humans? The sex part of course makes sense.
One Guest said he is spending $40k a day there, seems like a waste of money just to go **** whores and drink, seems like a waste of money to go there to kill robots too.
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10-21-2016 , 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by electricladylnd
One Guest said he is spending $40k a day there, seems like a waste of money just to go **** whores and drink, seems like a waste of money to go there to kill robots too.
There are 2+2er's that have spent that and got less.
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10-21-2016 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
Seems half right. Are there really a bunch of people out there that would enjoy the ability to violently assault other humans? The sex part of course makes sense.


Yes.
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10-22-2016 , 03:20 AM
The scenes with the guy and girl walking out to catch the straggler robot were really bad. That was either some horrible writing, bad acting or both. The rest of the show still intrigues me, but I'm not sure it's going to have enough firepower to keep my intrests for multiple seasons. Time will tell.
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10-22-2016 , 03:33 AM
Way to judge a show from 1 minor plotline
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10-22-2016 , 05:47 AM
I've got Dolores as having some serious emotional significance to Arnold (did ford say he'd also lost a child? Maybe Dolores is modelled on his daughter) which is why he chose her dad to threaten ford and Bernard, if that's true her being put on rape duty might have something to do with ford and Arnold's past.

Also I'm guessing the maze is probably meant for ford (the kid who tells MiB where to find the entrance says it's not meant for him.)
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10-22-2016 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
Seems half right. Are there really a bunch of people out there that would enjoy the ability to violently assault other humans? The sex part of course makes sense.
I have a hard time believing this is a serious question.
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10-22-2016 , 01:29 PM
Btw was Teddy's female sidekick a guest or a host in the last ep?
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10-22-2016 , 01:56 PM
I think she was a guest but I can't really remember why or if there was even any evidence as to which atm.
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10-22-2016 , 02:11 PM
Pretty obvious she was a guest, her relevance was not explained. Maybe to introduce the cult or whatever that was.
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