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Old 08-13-2012, 11:10 AM   #4976
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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Originally Posted by ianlippert View Post
This show seems to be very divisive, it would be interesting to see a poll thread. Imdb has TWD at 8.7, I think that's way to high but there is obviously something more substantial going on in this show than the haters like to think.
I've found TWD to have a surprising amount of fanfare from a lot of casual viewers that I know. The general consensus among them is that they seemed to have thoroughly enjoyed the first 2 seasons and have nothing but high expectations for season 3

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See you guys in the season 3 thread
I'll make the Walking Dead Season 3 thread in late September, a few weeks before the season premiere on October 14th
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:04 PM   #4977
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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Originally Posted by ianlippert View Post
This show seems to be very divisive, it would be interesting to see a poll thread. Imdb has TWD at 8.7, I think that's way to high but there is obviously something more substantial going on in this show than the haters like to think.
The big things working against TWD are that the first episode set up expectations in terms of ongoing quality that were impossible to meet, especially when Darabount was removed and the budget issues forced the show to be on a farm for most of Season 2. Plus, many read the comics and felt that the show took a far too melodramatic direction by comparison.

In terms of IMDB of 8.7, you just can't put too much stock in that. After all, According to Jim - which some have likened to the TV viewing equivalent of being waterboarded - somehow managed to get a 6.2.......

If you look at the threads on OOTV, it's clear that the shows people like tend to skew toward those that are critically praised but not widely embraced by the general public (The Wire, Deadwood). But there are also many fans of more popular (or at least more pop culture popular) shows like BTVS, Sopranos, Mad Men, Shield, and Lost. If TWD had delivered on the promise of the comics and first episode, there'd be a lot less "nittery" for sure.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:03 PM   #4978
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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The big things working against TWD are that the first episode set up expectations in terms of ongoing quality that were impossible to meet, especially when Darabount was removed and the budget issues forced the show to be on a farm for most of Season 2.
To elaborate on this, I want to provide everyone with some background info

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...d-fired-221449

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Reporter
What remains a central mystery, even to those closely involved, is what triggered AMC's move to fire TWD showrunner Frank Darabont. As noted, AMC's decision to cut the budget dated to the previous fall, when the network instructed Darabont to produce 13 episodes for a second season, up from six for the first season, for less money. Despite record breaking ratings, not only would the show get a lower budget, but AMC also decided that Walking Dead would no longer reap the benefit of a 30 percent tax credit per episode that came with filming in Georgia. Now the network was going to hold on to that money.

AMC had its own ideas about how to make the show more cheaply. The show shoots for eight days per episode, and the network suggested that half should be indoors. "Four days inside and four days out? That's not Walking Dead," says an insider. "This is not a show that takes place around the dinner table." That was just one of what this person describes as "silly notes" from AMC execs, "Couldn't the audience hear the zombies sometimes and not see them, to save on makeup?" The source says Darabont fought "a constant battle to keep the show big in scope and style." A battle which Darabont ultimately lost when he was relieved of his duties as showrunner in June.
Frank Darabont had very creative aspirations for Season 2 of The Walking Dead, aspirations which ultimately failed to bear fruit once the budget of the TWD was slashed and Darabont became financially handcuffed by the notoriously tight assed AMC execs. This eventually lead to his removal as showrunner by AMC after his subsequent protests for a reasonable budget fell on deaf ears.

Here he describes the initial plans for the opening of Season 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Darabont
I wanted to kick off the 2nd season with the flashback episode which would have followed a squad of Army Rangers getting trapped in the city and trying to survive as Atlanta falls. 



The idea was to do this with a very focused “you are there” documentary feel. Not going all shaky-cam, but still making it a bit rawer and grainier than the rest of the show. We’d start with a squad of maybe seven or eight soldiers being dropped into the city by chopper. They have map coordinates they need to get to; they’ve been told to report to a certain place to provide reinforcement. It’s not a special mission, it’s basically a housekeeping measure putting more boots on the ground to reinforce key intersections and installations throughout the city. And we follow this group from the moment the copter sets them down. All they have to do is travel maybe a dozen blocks, a simple journey, but what starts as a no-brainer scenario goes from “the city is being secured” to “holy ****, we’ve lost control, the world is ending.” Our squad gets blocked at every turn and are soon just trying to survive. I wanted to do a really tense, character-driven ensemble story as communications break down, supply lines are lost, escape routes are cut off, morale falls apart, leadership unravels, mutinies heat up, etc.

Along the way, I thought we could briefly dovetail this story with a few established characters from the show. Not to overdo that, mind you, because it could get silly and too coincidental if you load too much into that idea. But I thought it would be great to veer off on a quick narrative detour that brushes our soldiers briefly up against some people we know. Picture our squad arriving at a manned barricade where some civilians are being held back from leaving the city on shoot-to-kill orders to stop the spread of contagion, it’s a panicked high-intensity scene, and in this crowd of desperate people we find Andrea and Amy. The barricade gunners panic, the civilians start to get mowed down by machine gun fire, and in this melee the girls get pulled to safety by some old guy they don’t even know. It’s Dale. He’s nobody to them, just some guy who saw the opportunity to do the right thing and reacted in the moment. This would have been perhaps a minute or two of the episode, just a cool detour like the various outposts the soldiers encounter in Saving Private Ryan, but we would have witnessed the moment that Dale meets Andrea and Amy, seen where that relationship began.

So the story follows these soldiers through hell as the city falls apart and the squad implodes, with Sam’s soldier being the main character and the moral center of the group. He becomes the last survivor of the squad, and he finally gets to the map coordinates they’ve been trying to get to from the start: it’s the barricade at the Atlanta courthouse intersection from the pilot where Rick later finds the tank. The soldier is still alive when he gets there, but he’s been bitten. He’s accomplished his “simple” mission, but he’s gone through seven kinds of hell to do it (including being forced to frag his squad leader), and now he’s dying. And he crawls off into the tank just to get off the street and under cover. As his fever builds and the poor guy starts to hallucinate, he pulls his last grenade and considers ending his life. He sets the grenade down on that shelf for a moment to reflect on all the **** and misery that brought him to this sad end-point of his life, and to dredge up the courage to pull the pin...but before he can act, the fever burns him out and he dies. 



The kicker comes in the last moments of this episode:



After the soldier dies this squalid, lonely death...and after a quiet lapse of time...we do a shot-for-shot reprise from the first episode of the first season: Rick comes scrambling into the tank to escape the horde...blows that zombie soldier’s brains out...now Rick’s trapped...fade out...the end.



The notion was to take the “throwaway” tank zombie Rick encountered in the pilot, and tell that soldier’s story. Make him the star of his own movie, follow his journey, but don’t reveal who he is until the end. The idea being that every zombie has a story, every undead extra was once a human being with a life of his/her own...was, in a sense, the star of his own life’s movie. And we’ve followed this one particular guy and seen how his life ended; we witness his struggles, see his good intentions and his failures, and we experience his godawful death in this tank. That’s why I cast Sam as that tank zombie in the first place instead of just casting some extra. I had this story in mind while filming the pilot, and I knew I’d need a superb actor to play that soldier when the time came.



And then starting with Episode 202, we’d be back with Rick’s group and back in step with the flow of the established story from last season.

I always had in mind to throw in a “wild-card” episode every season, maybe as a season opener or closer. Just a separate story more in the feel of an anthology series, one that appears completely off the track of the regular series but actually does wind up tying in somehow by the fade-out. They did that sort of thing on LOST on occasion, and I really respected it. It always seemed like a bold choice that trusted the audience and rewarded their loyalty with a totally unexpected surprise episode every so often.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:12 PM   #4979
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

There's always more to a Hollywood story than what you read in the press. There were definitely far more factors involved in that decision than solely budget. It would probably be nearly impossible to find in this behemoth of a thread now, but several people have given very valid reasons of what went wrong on that end, including one person who thinks that Darabont shot that opening, and thought he could get AMC to budge on budget constraints upon showing it to them (some of that material likely ended up in the season finale). They didn't budge, and since most of the budget was likely blown, they had to spend a good deal of the season sitting on a farm.

I haven't heard anything about this season's budgets, but if they have significantly raised it from last season's, you can infer, just by seeing that, that there was more to the story than met the eye. AMC owns this show, and they wanted to feel like they were in charge, no matter how stupid it meant their decisions were. The audience hasn't tended to mind any of the decisions they've made, so far, so they aren't likely to budge until the audience does. That doesn't seem too likely to happen as season 2 ended on a very positive note.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:11 PM   #4980
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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Once again, this is an internet forum dedicated to discussing TV shows. There are going to be extreme levels of nittery. Despite the BB thread being full of nitting, pretty much everyone in there thinks the show is amazing. But what we do is pick shows apart, that way we find small nuanced references and whatnot. Sometimes we also find flaws. That doesn't mean the show is bad. It's just what we do. However, this show is bad, and so the nitting concentrates on how awful it is, because there is so much to nit about.
Well I never said it wasnt a good show. I watch it too and its epic. Ive lurked a tonne of these tv threads and that one is insanely bad. And no "you" do not just pick it apart there is full out crying in that thread lol.

BB is way too epic for that amount of whining. Why do you think it was actually closed for a day by mods? Too much retardation

But really who cares in the long run, it was just an off comment so there isnt really a need to get into a discussion about what I think of a certain thread

This show has some pretty bad leaks but it's pretty good overall so again, I disagree with you saying it's "awful". Ive seen way worse and this doesnt even come close
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:23 PM   #4981
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

Re: That Darabont quote. Man this show could've been AMAZING. **** you, AMC.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #4982
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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Re: That Darabont quote. Man this show could've been AMAZING. **** you, AMC.
Agreed. It was either me, or someone else, who posted that way earlier in the thread, but I can't remember for sure.

It's a shame on a lot of levels, actually. I think if the Pilot had gotten any EMMY notice in the major categories, they probably would have increased the budget. Because it didn't, and AMC realized it never will (lol genre shows is what the EMMYs think, generally), they probably didn't care anymore, and probably just wanted to rake in the profits and prove their domination over the show. There are a lot of capable Producers attached to that show, and sometimes that can be a bad thing.
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:59 AM   #4983
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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there is a world outside of nit picky ooters
yeah it's mostly filled with americans so used to terrible TV that they think TWD is amazing
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:04 AM   #4984
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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AMC had its own ideas about how to make the show more cheaply. The show shoots for eight days per episode, and the network suggested that half should be indoors.
Quote:
I haven't heard anything about this season's budgets, but if they have significantly raised it from last season's
considering this season will mostly be shot INSIDE a prison complex, i'm not sure we can infer that the budget was raised, nevermind significantly so
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:08 AM   #4985
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

You should go under a working assumption that the budget has not been raised. If it turns out it has been, that's a really powerful Hollywood message, and both camps have sent out a lot of messages in back-alley ways.

They still have to get to the prison, so I'm thinking, if there has been a budget expansion, that we will see that most in the first two episodes of the season, the mid-season break, and the final one or two episodes. If they give the audience three "big" budget episodes per season, people will forgive a lot.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:00 AM   #4986
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

Funny how much time the casual critic devotes to flaming a show he claims he doesn't like.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:49 AM   #4987
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

Pretty sure that if the Aliens are undecided, the fact that there are people willing to defend this show is going to finally push them into deciding to irradiate from orbit and give the cockroaches a go.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:37 PM   #4988
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

If they have a sense of humor, they'll infect most with a zombie virus and .
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:33 PM   #4989
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

I watch this show for one reason: zombies!!!!

I am convinced that anyone that thinks this show is great has either not seen very many of the actual great TV shows of the last decade or is an idiot.

The show is better than most crappy network shows out there but is laughably bad compared to the pilot or any of Breaking Bad, The Wire, The Sopranos, Mad Men etc. As others have pointed out, it wouldn't receive nearly as much nitpicking if it weren't so close to being so good or if the pilot weren't so awesome.

Last edited by WalterS; 08-14-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:31 AM   #4990
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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Yeah my post was a little off base, should have been more specific. I'm not really a horror fan and probably haven't seen a lot of the best zombie stuff out there. I agree that it is a good premise for a character piece, but I suppose there's probably a reason why most of the more good, character-based zombie fiction that's out there isn't as popular as TWD. After a certain point, most people (read: casual viewers) just want to see zombies getting their heads blown off, so what I should have said was "it's a show about a zombie apocalypse aimed at a fairly mainstream audience of 7-9 million people". The parameters of making a really popular TV show are a little restrictive.
The problem with this show is the amount of not blowing zombies heads off. They go in for tons of character development, they just execute this terribly.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:51 AM   #4991
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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The problem with this show is the amount of not blowing zombies heads off. They go in for tons of character development, they just execute this terribly.
Yeah, agreed. I do enjoy the show, but I do so in full knowledge that it's not that good, if that makes any sense. I enjoy it in a completely different way to how I enjoy Mad Men, for example.
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:09 AM   #4992
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

I enjoy this show, because I know afterwards I can come here and laugh with the comments on how bad it was once again :d
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:42 AM   #4993
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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Funny how much time the casual critic devotes to flaming a show he claims he doesn't like.
i think that's mostly brought about by the show's nuthuggers/idiots
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:23 AM   #4994
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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I enjoy this show, because I know afterwards I can come here and laugh with the comments on how bad it was once again :d
If the Videogum guy stops doing his recaps I will probably stop watching the show.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:37 AM   #4995
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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If the Videogum guy stops doing his recaps I will probably stop watching the show.
This. Although I felt he was kinda slacking the last couple of episodes, those before are simply amazing, hopefully he will pick it up in season 3.
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:42 PM   #4996
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

Just watched S1 and S2 -

In S2E3 Dale has a pack of Morley cigs on top of the RV, placing this show in the Tommyverse - and, by extension due to the blue meth, Breaking Bad as well.
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:16 AM   #4997
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

Nah, it only means that TWD is in, and that Tommy has seen, or know about, BB.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:03 AM   #4998
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

Mind == blown. Tommyverse is amazing work by A) the dedicated people mapping it and B) the dedicated people still dropping hints into the new shows.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:00 AM   #4999
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Re: The Walking Dead Season 2 (Premieres Sunday 10/16 at 9PM ET on AMC)

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Nah, it only means that TWD is in, and that Tommy has seen, or know about, BB.
Damn. Good point. So much for my shot at tv geekdom fame
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