So we're blaming her for being selfish...in an individual game? If she finds out that Malcolm's plan is to vote for Phillip, and she thinks she'd be fine without him, maybe it's worth the risk to her to try to burn Malcolm (and possibly an idol?) now. Andrea probably didn't originally expect it to be her BECAUSE she was so tight with Eddie.

Did it look like it was the plan all along when Dawn and Cochran were both non-plussed about the change of plans?

You've clearly watched enough of these shows to know that things don't always go according to plan and there have been pleeeenty of pawns or potentially "safe" people voted off for one reason or another. Andrea's reaction in this spot is a natural one. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, just that it's natural and to be expected. You don't think if Dawn and Andrea are in each other's spots in this episode that Dawn doesn't freak the **** out once she hears for certain that it's her head on the block (or basically any other SRU member in Dawn's shoes)??

Just because things worked out perfectly for Andrea doesn't mean she wasn't lucky. To be honest, I thought she kind of butchered the convo with Eddie, and gave away a LOT of information that Eddie could have used to realize Malcolm was about to be blindsided. Instead, Eddie also starts freaking out and reveals their plan to vote out Andrea, and Andrea becomes so frazzled that she starts crying to the camera and telling us "Oh my god, I'm going home tonight". She was legit breaking down to Dawn. This wasn't Andrea outleveling anyone, KOS. Eddie told her she was getting voted for, and she panicked.

Also, I would be SHOCKED if Phillip's big speech was all just some pre-thought-out strategic ploy to get Malcolm/Reynold to do something stupid (Btw, who were Phillip's comments directed towards, Malcolm or Reynold?) I can't remember now exactly what Phillip said, but I thought during the episode that they were directed towards Malcolm (as did Malcolm obviously). On Survivor Know-it alls, Fishbach also seemed to think that, whereas Rob C thought the comments were directed towards Reynold

My question is- why does it matter? Maybe they realized they were making a mistake. What is the advantage of going down the "vote Michael, end of discussion" path all the way as opposed to "vote Malcolm, nm vote Michael"? There was no harm done.

I think it was intentionally left vague, in hopes of getting whomever to play the idol.

Those weren't human sounds Dawn was making in the preview for next week's show. Really looking forward to an hour of her crying.

Malcolm GOAT, btw. Just very unlucky.

Do I remember right that Malcolm told Dawn they wanted to go for Andrea? We were blaming it all on Eddie, but really once Andrea hears from Dawn that it's her, you guys are saying she's correct in making her group NOT vote for Malcolm even though it really put off Cochran (who didn't show it to Andrea) and Dawn who probably did, but I'd have to re-watch to be sure.

Can we at least agree that Malcolm did not intend to save himself with Reynold's idol until sitting at TC? And if he had NOT saved himself with Reynold's idol, the better play for 'team Phillip' (including Andrea) was to vote Malcolm out of the game?

So during the let's vote Malcolm out of the game discussions that were being had, who did 'team Phillip' think was going to be the target of the other side? Phillip, I assume? Reckon he has the sense to be non-plussed about Andrea being fine with him being the target but not herself? And why did they think Phillip? Isn't Andrea the most apparent threat in that group? Why woudln't the other side try vote her out?

KOS: i have seen you saying you think SRU planned to throw malcolm off and get him to expose an idol through phillips talk at tc. I have a couple points on why i think that is glaringly wrong:

1. There are easier ways to put malcolm under pressure, or flush out reynolds idol.

2. If this was the plan then phillip being the dumbass he is would not be that vague about it. He would go out of his way at tc to make it obvious to Malcolm. Phillip was obv trying to sound tatical and like a secret agent with his talk tonight, if he had the job of getting malcolm scared he would have ****ed it up.

3. The whole andrea scramble happened like 10 min before tribal, to get their ducks in a row and throw up a decoy plan in 10 mimutes(obv probably a slight exxageration but was said during ep) seems hard.

4. Its ****ing phillip shepherd

what just happened i am confused

Malcolm arguably made a pretty big blunder keeping his 2nd idol. I can see an argument for holding onto it for the next vote, but he should recognize that if the idol play doesn't work on this vote then he's got a very small chance of winning in a 3 person alliance with just one idol for himself.

If he assumes the Favorites vote evenly between the four of them, then passing off his idol increases their success this vote by 25%, in exchange for not having an idol next vote by 55%. But I think the odds of the Favorites voting Malcolm or Michael are much greater than 50%, and the odds that one of the 4 of them will find another idol are also much larger than 45%.

Malcolm, being a immunity threat by himself, would be ******ed to pass of his idol. Having an unkwon of idol is huge in this game much more so then exposing both and atill not winning direct numbers.

So they expose both idols, the favs dont really have to worry a lot about them and then what at next tribal? The favs still have 6 votes incl sherri, and have no reason to join fans with no idols.

I cant imagine a time not like f5 where one alliance playing both idols is smart.

Andrea panicked and it worked. Regardless of the results, I don't think it was the right move. Sends a terrible message to the rest of your alliance that you'll abandon a plan as soon your name is brought up. I'm sure Cochran and Dawn had a conversation that went something like "you think she would've told us if bros were targeting us instead of her" "Doubtful". Her jumpiness and me first strategy is going to kill her long term.

If Andrea was really sure they were targeting her and wanted to be safe why not just tell Dawn and Cochran they got wind of the plan. Don't tell them that they are targeting you.

Dawn is crushing this season. Somehow being on top of an alliance but being perceived as the bottom is pretty amazing.

Malcolm should have accepted Reynold's idol, then pulled out his own and give it to Michael. Now that would have been awesome

I understand that Andrea's reaction is natural and expected if that was actually in question. Her paranoia served her well in this instance, but it WAS paranoia. She didn't divine this plan that wasn't even a plan until spur of the moment at TC.

This may just be one of your ploys to incite discussion (which you love oh so much) by "playing" dumb. But for the millionth time, it's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of what's natural and to be expected of someone in Andrea's spot because this is a game of self-preservation.



That's the point, that it was probably pretty ambiguous on their end and no one knew for certain except Dawn (if you notice, Dawn didn't even tell Andrea that Malcolm was targeting her til Andrea approached Dawn). So if you have a plan then you just go along and don't stress what the other side is doing. But if any of SRU had gotten confirmation from the other side that they were being targeted (along with knowledge of the fact that the other side had an idol) I'm sure they would have freaked out as well.

Because when he plays both, an idol is rehidden. So the tradeoff is the probability that a 2nd idol works vs the probability you don't find the idol that gets rehidden.

Malcolm being an "immunity threat" is pretty much irrelevant for reasons I've already mentioned. It is exceedingly difficult to win individual immunity unless you're the best (and you have to be the best) at balance, swimming, concentration, running, puzzle solving, memory, endurance, holding your breath, trivia, eating gross things, upper body strength, wordplay and aiming. Oh, and CBS has to decide not to do a challenge in which people can team up on you or basically collaborate against you in any way (which they won't).

The immunity necklace is like the sucker's bet of Survivor. It seems so easy until you realize how it's... not. It's not a strategic consideration at all.

I'm a particular fan of points 2 and 4.

Phillip might have been talking to Michael. He had a whole theme about making the fans toe the line and they're out if they stray. I wonder if Eddie's back handed comment to Sherri about being a pawn and not playing her own game will have any effect. I wonder if Phillip would ever consider trading Andrea in for Sherri. He's not that smart, right? see point 4.

Then what are you arguing exactly? For the record I'm not saying that Andrea masterminded ****. She bailed out on what was a good plan for their side, but her reaction is totally understandable and I don't fault her. And I'm also not going to be one to say that I have any clue how things might have played out had Eddie not dropped the beans (i.e. does Philip make that speech? does Malcolm ask for the idol? etc.)

Great editing.

Can we get in any sort of agreement then on what we think the correct play was here? Vote out Michael like they did? Try to flush Reynold's idol? It doesn't matter who the other side is targeting, the correct play is the safe play and vote Michael? Going for Malcolm was just crazy talk?

since 1 idol has been played will 1 be added now?

I was arguing with KOS about Andrea being some diviner of the future. I was trying to suss out if we thought it was a bad idea to be voting for anyone but Michael in the first place. Sniping Malcolm and his idol sounded awesome when they were discussing it. Like they don't even realize how awesome.

edit: I like Andrea AND Malcolm, so it's not like I was happy about the prospect of losing either of them. I was just keen on some interesting snipe-age going down.

I don't think they'll put an idol out until Malcolm's is gone. One tribe, one idol.