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Sherlock - BBC TV Series Sherlock - BBC TV Series

01-13-2014 , 09:25 AM
Literally the only thing in this season I enjoyed was the flashback to Mary in the first two eps showing how it was set up that she was more than she seemed. And that was like 5 minutes writing and would have been much more fun if it was at all guessable.
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01-13-2014 , 09:26 AM
this show isn't set up to be a real life gritty crime solver thing

its entertaining aspy ubermensch and buddy solves crime + humour + random situations
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01-13-2014 , 09:30 AM
I'm aware of what Sherlock is supposed to be. This is the same as the defense of Dexter when it went full ******. On the one hand, no, Dexter isn't supposed to be a realistic show. On the other hand, perhaps consider that the priest with the imaginary friend constitutes the show going full ******.
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01-13-2014 , 09:32 AM
The essence of Sherlock is the mysteries. Everything else is window dressing.

Think about the "mysteries" this season. There haven't been any that are clever except the unmasking of Mary, and even that was marginally clever and not really guessable. The others have all been full ****** and/or deus ex machina.

The show has to have mysteries and detective work, otherwise it's a sitcom and not even a good one.
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01-13-2014 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertieWooster
Spoiler:
I hope that Moriarty stays dead, and his "return" is just stuff he planned before his death. We've had unsatisfying returns after the last two cliffhangers so it wouldn't surprise me too much if it turns out Moriaty isn't returning in any guise, and the message was planted by Mycroft or Mary as a way to get Sherlock back.
No idea if we are discussing the ending as a spoiler or not. But going off your lead:

Spoiler:
The scene after the credits all but confirms that Moriarty also survived by faking his own death.

I want this to be true even if its a bit meh taken in a vacuum. Andrew Scott was a big part of what made the first two seasons great, he completely owned the Reichenbach Falls ep, so revealing that he also faked his own death somehow, was near death for a few months then by the time he got back on his feet found Sherlock decimating his network so he just decided to stay dead until Sherlock was about to fall is overall great for the show.

I dont know if they planned his return from the start, they have sort of said in interviews even before this season started filming that it was possible he faked his death too because he knew Sherlock would force him to do so, but how much of that was trying to just add to the lore and how much was real I have no clue.

But ultimately Sherlock should be him vs Moriarty and if nothing else it will insta get us back to where the show was great. I think knowing that Moriarty is coming back is what frames the death of Magnussen as perfect - he was devious, he was smart but he just wasnt on the level as Sherlock. The only two who should be on his level are Moriarty and Mycroft. Magnussen through information was power, Sherlock showed that nothing beats a 9mm at close range (except when you are Moriarty, somehow).
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01-13-2014 , 03:08 PM
I was hoping or thinking they were gonna have Mycroft behind Mary. Setting her up with Watson to have an extra pair of eyes and ears on Sherlock when he was coming home at the beginning of the season.

Also the real reason he wouldn't have gone to the wedding.
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01-13-2014 , 04:00 PM
I wonder if they will go into anymore of Mary's background, I'm guessing there will possibly be a 'past catching up on her' storyline thrown in. I like her but I don't really want to see her tagging along in cases as a token badass.
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01-13-2014 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
No idea if we are discussing the ending as a spoiler or not. But going off your lead:

Spoiler:
The scene after the credits all but confirms that Moriarty also survived by faking his own death.
Spoiler:
Ehh, not totally true. The writers could just be doing a breaking the 4th wall type thing. And I do remember seeing an interview of the writers at ComicCon saying that Moriarty is DEFINITELY dead. But who knows.

I really hope he is dead, I'm kind of over him. I doubt the explanation of how he faked it could be satisfactory.
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01-13-2014 , 04:13 PM
Moriarty is easily one of favourite villains ever so I wouldn't mind if they brought him back, especially if it got the show back on track again.
As even Sherlock's 'death' explanation felt like a bit of an anticlimax I really can't see them explaining Moriarty surviving in any satisfactory way, unless....

Spoiler:

ftw!
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01-13-2014 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanerio
good ep, bit deux ex machina but sherlock is a bit of an aspy ubermensch character anyway so i'll allow it

lolomni being ultramad
In what way exactly?

The writers, especially Moffat, are all partial to a bit of deus ex, and it's definitely been prevalent throughout the show, but I didn't see any DEM in yesterday's ep.
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01-14-2014 , 09:24 AM
Really bro?

- Mary getting in w full black ninjas gear
- Janine in position of executive power
- Projector! Straight out of hospital
- mags allowing weapon to be carried and zilch security
- No plotline of how Sherlock MURDERING got covered up
- Not mention even cold g assassins being with lolwatson
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01-14-2014 , 09:25 AM
While that certainly may be bad writing, none of it is Deus Ex Machina. I'm not sure you know what that actually means.
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01-14-2014 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
This was a better episode, but only in the way that being punched in the arm is better than being kicked in the balls.

I probably won't bother watching season 4...
haha standard response after dissapointing season
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01-14-2014 , 05:28 PM
I fully expect season 4 to return to season 1-2 greatness if Moriarty is involved.
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01-14-2014 , 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanerio
Really bro?

- Mary getting in w full black ninjas gear
- Janine in position of executive power
- Projector! Straight out of hospital
- mags allowing weapon to be carried and zilch security
- No plotline of how Sherlock MURDERING got covered up
- Not mention even cold g assassins being with lolwatson
-This was not too subtly foreshadowed, it was obvious that something was off about her. A twist != deus ex. It is implied that she also got in using Janine, and was only friends with Janine because she held the position of Mag's assistant.

- That was the only point of Janine's character. When it was revealed that Sherlock was using her the story transitioned from being an irritating quasi rom-com back to being a mystery.

- Don't know what you mean here.

-Plot hole (of which there were many) rather than dues ex.

-Yes there was. All that "let's send him off to Eastern Europe" bs.

-See point 1.

This though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRempel
While that certainly may be bad writing, none of it is Deus Ex Machina. I'm not sure you know what that actually means.
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01-15-2014 , 12:10 AM
Thought the 3 episodes were entertaining, but not as good as the first 2 seasons.

I also thought I read somewhere that the writers said Moriarty was definitely dead. May have been wrong.
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01-15-2014 , 12:53 AM
He's definitely dead but he could have still left a prepared game to **** with Sherlock.
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01-15-2014 , 02:50 AM
Hope he's alive, setting up this type of cliff hanger which will probably take 2 years being followed with "oh he isn't really back he just set up a tarp" is too much even for Sherlock.
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01-15-2014 , 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanerio
Really bro?

- Mary getting in w full black ninjas gear
- Janine in position of executive power
- Projector! Straight out of hospital
- mags allowing weapon to be carried and zilch security
- No plotline of how Sherlock MURDERING got covered up
- Not mention even cold g assassins being with lolwatson
She is a former cia asset.

She was always in that position of power, that is why May targeted her.

Err, that isn't weird.

He was over confident because he misunderstood Sherlock.

"Mycroft is the most powerful person in the country" was a line in the episode, we don't need to see him pulling strings to get Sherlock a suicide mission for MI6 to work out that is what happened.

TV is TV
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01-15-2014 , 01:07 PM
The scenes where Sherlock decides what to do when he gets shot were fantastic, outside the pool scenes in S1/S2 probably my favorite scenes in the series. The scenes after until Mary becomes a client were fantastic as well.

The scenes between Sherlock and the villain were very good as well though I agree flawed to some degree and with some plotholes.

Rest of the episode was obv better than first 2 but not as good as first 2 seasons. Overall by far weakest season but I don't think the series is ruined at all or whatever.



Also, I don't know where I said it, but somewhere I said after S2 that both had survived the rooftop scene. Not 100% sure I'm right yet, but MOST LIKELY.
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01-15-2014 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfg
My initial theory was that they were both going to survive the roof scene, but now I think Morblabla is dead . Sad though, he was a really cool character.
It was itt .
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01-15-2014 , 04:26 PM
I now remember in the first episode of the season that Mary said to Sherlock she would talk to Watson and get him to forgive Sherlock. Seems odd, as Sherlock would ultimately work out what she use to be and she didn't want John to know. You think she would try and drive them apart.
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01-15-2014 , 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
You think she would try and drive them apart.
She legit loves Watson and wants him to be happy. When they met Holmes was dead and she obv saw how much that affected Watson. And she understands about being a "man of action". So last thing she's going to do is try to take all that away again.

Unlike Holmes and Janine, Mary didn't hook up as part of any plan.
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01-15-2014 , 07:11 PM
took a big risk though. Really should have confessed before Sherlock worked it out.

Though that wouldn't have been any good for the show
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01-15-2014 , 11:28 PM
Sherlock didnt work it out. She was that good.
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