yea thanks ytf, cleared up a lot of stuff I didnt get in the episode

LOVED IT!

It felt a bit like the first episode of the Wire.
You're thrown right into a story about characters you know almost nothing about talking about things you're a bit guessing what they mean.

It's challenging to the viewer and I love it.
They hired a wide cast of talented actors imo. So far I didn't get the feeling that I don't buy him as the character that he portrays.
I know, we didn't get much info about them, however, I didn't feel like they were over-acting it.
Also most of these characters all seem a bit shady and ambiguous and are not like classified as heroes or villains which I like in a show.

It's a show where I as a person that doesn't speak English as primary language definitely needs subtitles, there's a lot of jargon and mumbling going on.
But reading the posts above, even you natives seem to be challenged by the dialogue so I'm not worried.

I like who they don't explain everything right away. I don't think it's even necessary that they do. They emphasized that betting on a single horse is a quite a risky move. Furthermore, they implied that winning all their bets this day will bring them the big pay-day. That's all I need to know at that point. Did I understand how that exactly works at this point - no - but I still was able follow the story anyway.

The little twist with the horse that breaks his leg was also pretty good. For a moment I was a bit worried that they did the same thing as in the race where they won but instead they included a great little twist imo.

The editing of the horse races was stunning imo. Some nice camera-angles were used in those shots, also they did a nice mix between reaction shots and shots of the race itself.

Personally, I'd think this was a stunning pilot episode.

I'm a bit worried that it might be not that appealing to the masses, however, it's still HBO and I'm confident that they give this show the chance to evolve and thrive so it can get enough viewers on board to give us at least 3 seasons of it.

Thanks a lot YTF, that clears up a lot of stuff for me. Great to have your insight.

Thisthisthis. The racing scenes were spectacular. I think if i was on the side of the track like the bettors i would be like the one of the 4 who kept asking "what's happening?"

The filming was awesome, really put us into the action and caring for the horses.

The horse breaking his leg hurt me, but im a f4g for animals. I liked the scene right after with the jockey and the manager and the old timer about losing a horse.

OK, I'm watching it now. Yes, NOW, at 6-7 AM CST. I was up all night trying to figure out how to, um, "secure" a copy of the video, using a super-slow computer that I won't mind losing if it picked up an "infection" in the process.

I had to pause it about 17 mins in, because when Richard Kind calls up Gary Stevens the first time, and we see a collection of photographs of Gary's glory days as a jock while the voicemail plays, they actually feature a pic of him winning the Derby on Thunder Gulch, the $52 horse I mentioned above! If you watch it again, he's pumping his fist while wearing Michael Tabor's colors (big pink circle on blue silks, pink/blue stripes on the sleeves and helmet), one of Churchill Downs' famous Twin Spires in the background.

I'll post my thoughts here as I watch:

--When reading the script, I thought Marcus (oxygen mask guy) sounded like Sipowicz, and Ganther (Porky Pig) sounded like Medavoy. The actors must've thought so, too, because they're doing their best impersonations of those two guys.

--The music is awesome! You guys were COMPLAINING about it???

--I read the script, I *know* the lines, and I *still* can't understand what Escalante is saying at the beginning! BTW, I love the fact that there's a shady-yet-accomplished South American trainer on the show, in real life it seems like every track has one. And if you blink during that scene, you miss my favorite line in the show. Escalante is suddenly pissed, and the kid is so stunned, he answers a question with, "I guess sir, yes so." I love that!

--Watching that horse work out was breathtaking. I was holding my breath, literally. Then when the girl got low and started scrubbing his neck, you could SEE the length of his stride increase. He really WAS "stretching his legs", as Nolte had worded it. Incredible photography AND great use of music/sound editing...you know, all the things you NEVER think of when you watch tv!

--Loved how the kid got a high-five leaving the Winner's Circle from the jock that wouldn't cut him a break during the race. Also loved the POV shot of the narrow opening on the rail just before Jerry shouted, "Go inside!" and the kid boldly sent his horse through there. It was an incredible move, which makes Escalante's aloofness towards the kid in the Winners Circle even funnier.

--PONY BOY: What's her name?
BUG BOY: "Tattered Flag".

I hope I wasn't the only one to catch the foreshadowing in that name. And the sound of that horse's leg snapping was the sickest thing I've ever heard in my life. I mean, I knew the horse was gonna break down as soon as I heard her name, but this was even sicker than those catastrophes USUALLY are. It's usually a bobble, a false step, and you can see the horse favoring a leg, but this horse went Joe Thiessman, you never see that.

(In the script, the horse's legs are heavily bandaged, and she's wearing extra-large blinkers on the right side, something reserved for lame horses who tend to "bear out" in the stretch. On film, the horse had neither bandages nor blinkers. When the kid tells Gary Stevens, "She was movin' good, else I wouldn't've asked her," that line would make more sense if the horse was held together with bandages.)

--They cut out the part where Kagle the security guy offers a piece of the IRS withholding, and Marcus explaining to his numbnuts buddies that Kagle can easily afford kicking back 33% of the withholding because he plans to write off enough losing tickets to get 100% of that money back from Uncle Sam. Which leads us to another great line from the script that didn't make the cut, after Kagle initially offered 25%:

MARCUS: 33% is the going rate.
KAGLE: The "going rate" is whatever you can get!

Just as I was thinking, "That's true!", Kagle caved. "Will 33% get it done?" Marcus never answers, and Kagle doesn't know if he's going to get to cash the ticket for them. One of the reasons Marcus wants to wait a day before cashing is to "let that fat **** worry about whether or not" the deal is on.

--They also cut out Lonnie (the guy who bankrolled them) asking, "Which is what, consolations?" I love that it was worded that way, instead of, "What's a consolation?" In the script, they do about five minutes explaining that they have about 15 5-of-6 bets that will pay about $9k each. What DID make the final cut was Marcus' summation: "Two-point-six mill, plus 15 consolations, plus 33% of the withholding."

And alas, the best line of the script didn't make the final cut. Since they cut out the consolations explanation, they couldn't leave in Lonnie's line as they turned their back on the track. "We still get consoled for the dead horse too, right?"

EDIT: By the way, Gary Stevens isn't the only real-life jock in the cast. That blond chick hanging by the rail with the exercise girl is also a jock--and she's pretty cute, too.

ONE MORE EDIT: You guys who are mad that things weren't explained enough, should read the script. There were at least a half-dozen "explain to the audience" lines added to the final product.

CAN'T STOP EDITING: They changed my second favorite line in the script, too. When Marcus taunts Kagle with, "You had Jerry's picks, why didn't you bet them?", Kagle replies, "I'm not spending $864 to single that thieving sp*c!" The line got changed to a more explanatory, unfunny answer.

Nice insider infos, but I rather not read the script just yet, maybe after the first season.

I had no idea how little the general public knows about horse racing. Comments on Sepinwall's blog mostly say, "I couldn't understand it," and they're not talking about the sound quality, they're talking about the sport/betting aspect.

One commenter asked where it was filmed, and another replied that he saw the Santa Anita sign on top of "the starting cage, or whatever it's called." Good grief, I can't believe I live in a world where that's possible.

RE: the soundtrack : i liked the music, i just thought it was too loud and covering some of the dialogues. The music itself was fine.

EDIT: fwiw, i don't know either how the thing where the horses start their race is called. In french we just call them "box" i think tho.

I don't know anything about horse racing either.
Being a recreational poker player at least gives me more of an idea what they're talking about when they hinted at their betting pattern.
But I can totally see that there're a lot of casual viewers who got the three fat question marks floating over their heads while watching this.

really? what would you say people's exposure to horse racing is? it's not legal in many states and from what i'm led to believe, it's dying out.

pretty much all forms of gambling look completely incomprehensible from the outside, and there's a huge segment of people that don't gamble recreationally in any form.

The list of people who understand betting on horse racing and don't actually do it has to be very small. I get gambling and sports betting more than the average bear, I used to have ESPN on perpetually that I get a little bit of how it works. I used to on occasion listen to the local horsey racing betting radio show that came on before John Clayton on local radio.
Beyond very basic "win/place/show" stuff I'm clueless.

You gotta remember, I grew up one exit away from Rockingham Park. My Dad was a trainer, and he and his brother co-owned the horses he trained. I was attracted to gambling at a young age, and all the guys in the pool room played the horses.

I never thought I was special.

While watching I didn't understand how their bet worked, which kinda annoyed me. But after reading this thread I do.

Overall it didn't really get me, but it wasn't bad either, so I'll give it a go. Intro was very cool though, reminded me of GTA.

this

i got no idea wtf happened

People commented and explained it ITT. Go back a few pages.

I don't know about everyone else's stance in this thread, but I view the difficulty understanding this show as more of a potential problem for it being picked up for a 2nd season that it is for me personally. I'm sure if I decide to put the effort in, I'll get it, but if others don't....it gets canceled. And the notion that it's HBO so they'll give it a longer leash as long as it's cheap enough to produce is not true. Milch's last HBO show was 1 and done cause nobody knew what the **** it was about.

Milch's last HBO show didn't star Dustin Hoffman and Nick Nolte, surfer culture is unappealing to the mainstream, and general audiences have become way more moronic since the days when they could accept supernatural elements in shows like Twin Peaks.

--I mentioned Sepinwall a minute ago. In his review, his prime example of not knowing what was going on included wondering if the 8-horse being ridden by the bug in the nightcap was Nick Nolte's horse. Now I understand that a lot of you don't follow racing, but come on! Nolte's horse just ran full speed for the first time THAT MORNING! You think that means he's ready to race? "This guy has nine more gears," gushed the exercise rider, we haven't even tapped into how fast he can go, this horse is a work in progress, he's not going to saddle up this afternoon! And if he WAS ready to race, you think you'd have him running sprints before the race??? And for God's sakes, the bug calls the 8-horse "she", "her", "Cher'", and "Mama" a half-dozen times, while Nolte refers to his horse as "the Big Man"!

--Just spoke to my sister, former exercise rider (not for long, was thrown and broke her back on one of her first rides, she's fine now but nobody who loved her would let her back on a horse), was married to a jock, now married to a trainer. First words out of her mouth was the way the show captured the realism. "When they were giving the horse a bath, that's really the way you give a horse a bath! They always got on and off the horse on the correct side! When the degenerate blew his bankroll the night before he was supposed to pitch in on a Pick-6 ticket, that's really what they do!" OK, we knew that last one.

--My one fear for this show: now that we've had our "peek behind the curtain" to see that world we've never seen before, now it's just an ordinary show. Of course, no Milch show is "just an ordinary show", but you know what I mean.

What??? But Ed O'Neil and Luke Perry!!!

But seriously, good on your 1st point, but you can substitute the word horse racing for surfer and I think you're making my argument.

As to the 1st point, it's a TV show so I guess it's a fair question.

I obv. Want the show to thrive and as was pointed out i would be more fearful of the show being cancelled not my personal enjoyment as ill watch each ep a couple of times. I do think that its a bit speculative for youtalkfunny to think that people should know what you think we should know. Im sorry but they are not people and i mean that to say that to an extent all brown horses look like brown horses, etc. i kept wondering which horse was Aces and which was Noltes and it was a bit confusing. Not near as obvious as your making out to be, imo. Otherwise keep adding to his thread, your posts def helped me enjoy the second viewing more

I don't think so, there were a couple of very successful horse/horserace movies in the last decade or so.

LOL, they all look alike to me, too!

I think it's safe to say that they won't show Nolte's horse without showing Nolte with him. Or Ace's horse without its people with him (Escalante, Farina, etc).

I'm off tonight with nothing to do, I might watch the ep again and write an epically long post breaking down every shot of this ep in painstaking detail. Seems like some might find it handy.

I did it. God help me.

Here's the YTF "commentary track" for Episode One of Luck:

6:15 This is the toughest scene in the show to follow, because of Turo's accent. Escalante gives Leon (bug boy) his instructions, stripping him of his riding crop: "You don't need no stick. I've got to stay here. Jog him around once the wrong way around (the track), loosen him up for his race this afternoon." The kid remarks, "We run big with this horse today." Now Escalante has to make sure the kid understands the instructions he was just given--the last thing we need is some idiot jockey sprinting around the track and wearing out the horse before the race. "What??? Is this morning today? Or this afternoon?" The kid has no idea what the problem is. Puzzled, he asks, "What?"

Escalante is a busy man and has no patience for this kid's nonsense. "Pinhead, is this morning today so far?" When the kid replies in the affirmative (with the brilliant, "I guess sir, yes so."), Escalante repeats the instructions, "Then jog him once the wrong way around, and shut up on what you don't know, before I call Porky Pig on you." The kid takes it, bites his lip, and rides off.

The vet, making conversation, asks, "You met the limo driver yet?" Escalante scoffs, "And buys this horse for $2M? You pro'ly too think they really landed on the moon."

The blues music cranks, and Turo engages in this tough-to-hear exchange with the groom.

ESCALANTE: Yap, yap, yap, esta nino.
GROOM: Senor HablaMucho.
ESCALANTE: (chuckles) HablaMucho, si.

9:00 Nolte remarks to the night watchman, "I was wonderin' if maybe the last quarter (mile) the girl should loosen up, let him stretch the hell out." Then he asks the horse, "Feel like stretchin' out?" Then, as the music indicates something important is about to be said, he instructs the girl, "Maybe you'd let him stretch out a little in the lane." The girl can't hide her excitement. "Great! Cuz he's been pullin' my arms off!" For you horse newbs, this is her way of letting US know that she's been holding the horse back, and letting NOLTE know that this is an incredibly strong horse.

11:15 The Big Horse isn't just farting around any more, he's settling down into a jog. God, this music is kick-ass!

12:17 Marcus is studying his form, we see a brief close-up of his program, opened to the 4th race, a $12.5k claiming race (which would make these some of the cheapest horses on the grounds at a major-league track like Santa Anita, or the classiest horses on the grounds of a ****hole like Suffolk Downs or Mountaineer) 1 Mile on the main track (on the dirt, not the turf course).

He's got a circle around the 2-horse; a ton of notations around the 4-horse, which the program tells us is the 9-to-5 favorite; and a couple of cross-out marks in the blank spaces around the name of the 5-horse, Mon Gateau. The program lists each horse's owner, trainer, jock, morning line odds, and weight to be carried (the fine print at the top of the page, "the conditions", give a two-pound allowance to any horse who hasn't won at this distance since January 24, and one pound for every $1000 the owner knocks off the claiming price, up to two pounds; I'll explain claiming in the following post). Of the eight horses we see listed (the bottom of the page is out of frame), only one is carrying the entire 123 lbs. A couple carry 121, a few carry 119, and two stand out for carrying 113--each of these is a longshot with an apprentice jockey. The 3-horse's jockey has an asterisk next to his name; our 5-horse, Mon Gateau, trained by Turo Escalante, is ridden by Leon Micheaux, who has THREE asterisks next to his name. In army terms, he's not even a Private First Class yet, he's an E-1. You wouldn't think a 6-10 pound difference would matter much to a strong young horse, but in racing, it's a big deal.

14:08 The Big Horse is really starting exert himself now as they begin to turn for home. The rhythm of the hoofbeats has picked up substantially (14 minutes into the first episode, and ship the Sound Editing Emmy--the same sound editing you guys hope they "clean up" before the show runs in earnest???). The rider has her feet up on the dashboard, which means exactly what you think it means: she's dug in, trying to hold this horse back. Another nice touch: you'd have to pause it to see it, but the blanket under the saddle says "WS". Nolte's character is named Walter Smith. The camera angle makes it seem like the horse is coming around the turn so fast, he's fish-tailing like the cars in a Steve McQueen chase scene! I'll bet that little photographic stunt caught the attention of the novice viewer.

14:20 The moment they pass the quarter-pole (which marks a quarter-mile from the finish--it drives me nuts every time Chris Berman calls Week 4 in the NFL "the quarter pole", when there is still THREE-QUARTERS of a season to go!), the girl drops her fanny and crouches as low as she can, loosens the reins, and starts "scrubbing" the horse's neck, urging him to take off. Nick Nolte hits the stopwatch, and the horse literally JUMPS at the chance run as fast as he can. It's what he was BRED to do! His trainer has been bringing him along slowly--not a scam like Escalante pulls later in the episode, this is what a responsible trainer does with a young horse who's not nearly ready to race yet. He's not being whipped or kicked or shouted at, he's not being forced to perform under any duress--all that's happening is he is being given the opportunity to run as fast as he wants in a wide-open space. What more could a strong young horse want? The background is flying by in a blur, every muscle on this running machine is flexing...does tv have a cinematography Emmy?

15:39 "You singled the fourth? I had the fourth a semi-spread." "For a triple-bug apprentice who hasn't won ten races in his life, he's going to single a horse that hasn't run in two years." The quick close-up of the DRF text tells us young Micheaux L has 48 career mounts, 6 wins, 7 places, 3 shows, a win % of .12--not bad for a bug, but not HOF numbers, either. That's an average WEEK for some jocks! The chances to get on the track are few and far between for a bug at a big-league meet.

16:55 When Porky Pig is done chewing out the kid for running his mouth, the kid promptly runs his mouth. He drops his voice to a whisper, and confides that this horse is really fit. The kid just doesn't get it. Beneath the saddle is a red blanket with the initials "TE" on it.

17:15 "Mr Walter, listen, this guy's got nine more gears!", she pants. Riders get in sync with their horses, she knows what she's talking about. She knows that when she asks for it, the horse will be able to give her even more--a LOT more. This horse is a monster.

23:41 First authenticity problem: Kagle holds out a $50 bill for Jerry's picks. Everybody knows horse players think $50 bills are unlucky! (Lest anyone hold Milch in contempt for this oversight: in the script I read, it was $10!)

27:57 Escalante gives his instructions: "Listen to me: you keep'n'm covered up, so he don't go; when you ask o' him, you take'n'm WIDE, so you don't get'm stopped." He later repeats, "He gonna finish for you. Get'm'n WIDE, don't get'm'n STOPPED."

34:04 The kid's trapped on the rail (not bad riding, totally bad luck). When he sees an opening on the rail no wider than the horse's nose, he doesn't hesitate, he LUNGES for it! An incredible move for any jock, let alone a bug. This only makes Escalante's chilly reception in the Winners Circle even funnier.

39:45 Nolte mentions to the horse that he might be ready to race in a few weeks.

43:30 "What's her name?" "Tattered Flag." This is called "foreshadowing". Milch may as well have called her, "Purina Dog Chow", cuz that's what she'll be by the end of the week.

43:50 My favorite sound editing yet: as the starting gate moves into position, we hear chains dragging, a tractor puttering, and those gates creaking and slamming, each and every one of them. In this shot, the SOUND is setting the scene even better than the PICTURE is!

44:01 For the first time, we hear the voice of track announcer Trevor Denman in the background as the horses go into the gate. I'm hoping we hear a lot of Trevor over the course of this series. He's the best ever at what he does. He was featured prominently in Richard Dreyfuss' horse race comedy "Let It Ride", a film that I highly recommend (shocker!). Hey, it's funny. Ask anybody.

47:28 The kid is making his move, Gary Stevens urges from the stands, "The outside's the upside, bug!", the music is building to a crescendo...and I can't make my palms stop sweating, because I know those sound editors are standing by with a stalk of celery to make the sickest sound effect in all of sports.

47:33 SNAP! The crowd gasps. Even Gary Stevens has to turn and look away.

48:43 The boys win. The rising music obscures one of my favorite lines: we hear Lonnie shout "Champion of the World! Heavyweight Champ!", but it's tough to hear my favorite part: "Everyone kiss...my...ass!"

49:00 They may have cut out Kagle offering a 33% kickback of the IRS withholding, but they didn't cut it out of Marcus' summary: "$2.68 million and some, plus 33% of the withholding, plus 15 consolations."

??:?? I went back to add this, after I had finished watching. I've never seen a "night watchman" watching a single horse overnight before. "He slept through the night...licked his bucket clean"??? There's usually Track Security prowling the grounds, that's it, and they're not there to watch any one particular horse. I've also never seen a trainer hang around the barn all day, doing nothing, never leaving his horse's side. I don't know what happened to this horse's daddy 2000 miles away, or what Nick Nolte was supposed to do about it back then, but he sure seems intent on not letting it happen a second time.

54:11 Dustin Hoffman is talking to himself. You'll note I haven't mentioned him once in this write-up. As far as that arc goes, you guys are on your own.

just watched this and have to say that anyone complaining about this episode is just looking for reasons not to like ****.

this is easily going to be the most awesome show on TV and i cannot wait for the rest of the season.

YTF, you're insane... But great rundown, thanks.

This is gonna be great, i can't wait.