I'm definitely hoping this is the case. Deadwood didn't really grip me until the 2nd episode. Definitely thinking more Dustin Hoffman, who's screen time was really limited in this 1st ep, would help.

Also hoping they realize the problems with this sneak preview and maybe clean up the audio a bit before they start their run in January and re-air. Or is it too late for that?

Overall I liked the pilot. I don't know anything about horse racing tho, so it was a bit tough (for instance I didnt really get why, in the last race, they were rooting for 8 to win, but then 2 won and they still got 2.6M). I guess it's normal tho, and I think im gonna learn on the spot with the show.

I didnt like a couple of things :

- I dont like Richard Kind as an actor, and i hate his way of talking in the show. I don't get most of the words that come out of his mouth, it's super frustrating;

- Same thing for that hyspanic trainer (forgot his name). In the first 10min where he was on screen, I almost didnt get a single word. Mumbling and sick accent and music = me not understanding

- The music was overwhelming. It was loud, dramatic and covering dialogues.

I'm gonna be watching this every week tho. I'm intrested in the 4 degens more than the rest of the characters for now, although Hoffmann's storyline is probably gonna be epic.

I understand why people found the sound mix frustrating, but people itt need to stop acting as if it is an error, not a choice. This is standard Milch stuff, just be thankful it's Milch and not Altman. Horseracing and boxing really let directors be as ostentatious as possible, sometimes to a fault, but I thought Mann did a beautiful job directing all those scenes. I really liked the soundtrack and the opening credits.

I really dislike that Hoffman's character is named Ace Bernstein and I'd imagine most people who have watched Casino would feel the same way.

I also think it is odd that everyone is complaining about being thrown into the deepend, when the same people probably praise The Wire for not spoon feeding the audience.

I watched it a second time and tried to really listen, and with a few rewinds, picked up just about everything. The Hispanic trainer had really incredible dialogue. In a cast of lots of heralded actors, I think his performance stood out the most. Yeah, this show will probably be totally awesome. My first comment nitted it up about the gambling/variance aspect but I need to not focus on that and let Milch just go where he wants.

Nolte played a gambler in "The Good Thief" which I really enjoyed, so it's nice to see him back in this environment, and on paper his story interests me the most. Just one of those guys, out there, trying to develop a horse that wins it all.

Agree with you pudge. I look forwrd to watching the pilot again soon and picking up on the subtleties i missed the first time around. I have found myself thinking about this show more and more as the day has gone on. Talking to a friend who loves boardwalk earlier and he dismissed the pilot quickly, i guess i just find milchs characters extremely endearing and attractive in a way thats hard to explain. I Cant help but be sucked in, Though i need to find my closed captioning button.

Pilot was pretty bad IMO, might watch one or two more episodes...but nothing really stood out.

Yea with the jargon, again, it's not uncommon for great works of art to use an interesting/authentic vernacular that is never fully explained. It makes the whole experience richer. It doesn't matter whether or not you understand everything.

Nobody knew what "flopping the nut straight" or "fourth street" were when Rounders came out, but those who saw it loved it anyway (partly because of how authentic-seeming and non-pandering it was).

Edit: Wouldn't have made this post if I'd realized there was another page here where Pudge puts people in their place.

Glad to see the tide turning after the initial negative reactions. As a non-subscriber with no easy HBO access, I'm really looking forward to watching for the first time on Blu-Ray in January 2013!

As a coincidence, I've been re-watching Rome this week. If you're curious about what Kerry Condon (Irish chick-jockey who exercises the horse) looks like naked...

I liked this a lot and thought it was the best thing Michael Mann has done since Collateral.

The Pick-6 bet, like any other horse racing bet, is a pool. The winners share the pot. When a favorite comes in, there are more winners, so everyone's share is smaller. When a longshot comes in, there are fewer winners, so the winning shares are bigger.

In poker terms, if the 8 wins, they scoop; with the 2, they probably chop. Or maybe they scoop either way, but the 8 would help the consolations. Tough for me to tell you, I *still* haven't watched the ep yet.

Yea I thought that was the case. Thanks for the explaination.

I'm a bit sad that we have to wait 7 weeks for the serie to really start. I'm so pumped.

I thought it was great. I know very little about horse racing, and all the terminology didn't throw me; it just made me want to do research so I can get a better understanding of what went on.

One thing I didnt really get tho is this (i put it in spoilers, because who knows)

They hit the "all button" for the last race. The 8 and the 2 were the only two horses that scooped the entire pool for them. It didn't matter which of them won. The reason they were more focused on the 8 was he had the jockey that had brought home their single in the 5th race.

begin minor nit - when they showed the will-pays for the last race, there were payouts for horses 1-9. during the race there was a #12 horse. - end minor nit


i'm a lifelong horse fan, to me it seemed "dumbed down" for the avg joe. it's all about perspective.

also, the ticket as written on the napkin would be over $3k, not the $864 they mentioned during show

I loved it.

Yup. Sucks there will only be 9 episodes this season.

was very good, have to see more. i also had problems with the dialogue mix but i assume i'll get used to that. 'washed up' actors means older actors, which doesn't mean bad actors - although it sure seems like nick nolte is going to be delivering wandering monologues to no one a lot.

a big gambling win feels totally unearned in the first episode of a show, though - i suppose that's a way of setting us up rather than leaving these characters to be broke trackside degens.

This was really, really good.

First I watched the trailer and thought the pilot would be ****.
Then I watched the pilot and quite enjoyed it. It was not bad nor very good imo.
Seems like an interesting enough series, let's see how it develops.

Enjoyed the pilot. Look forward to watching this season.

There's no rule that I know of that prohibits trainers (or owners or even jockeys, for that matter) from betting on their own horse. I'm sure the Racing Commission would have a problem if these folks bet AGAINST their own horse!

My Dad was a trainer. When he wanted to bet his own horse (in the days before self-service betting machines), he sent someone else to the windows to put the bet down for him. Can you imagine what would happen to the odds if the betting public saw the trainer at the windows before the race???

In the case of this episode, this trainer is running a horse off a two-year layoff, with lousy workout times and a "triple-bug rider", presumably because no accomplished jockey would want to waste his time on such a nag (while bug boys take any mount they can get, especially when it's a chance to form a relationship with a top trainer). No one in the world is expecting this horse to go out and dominate a race. If the trainer is seen cashing tickets after this race, then it's clear to everyone that HE expected it, so those lousy work times were obviously a scam to drive the odds up on his horse.

Perhaps I should explain further: Horse bettors buy the Daily Racing Form (DRF) to research the horses they're betting on. The Form shows the horses' stats, both this year and lifetime. It shows minute details from his last ten races (see below for an example), and the dates and times of his most recent workouts. As this horse had no races in the past two years, the only way to judge his current "form" is the recent workout times. Escalante had the exercise rider hold the horse back, clock times that appeared lousy but indicated strength to someone who watched those workouts and knew the horse was being held back.

What the DRF might tell you about a horse's last race (and the 9 races before that one), all in one line of short-hand text:

http://www1.drf.com/help/help_drf_pp.html

It's tl;dr, so you can skim down the bold text at the start of each paragraph to see what I'm talking about; or you can take the time to read the definitions of the terms you don't know.

^ great post. Figured as much but that helps explain things. Really cool insight you have

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment...hbos-luck.html

If the link gets contracted, it's called NY Mag's "Handy Guide to Understanding HBO's Luck"