To clarify, this was a sneak preview. In 7 weeks, episode 1 re-airs AFAIK and it's like the normal start of an HBO season. It's like previewing a September pilot after the Super Bowl. This is unlikely to hurt it - if people hate it they would have hated it in January anyway.

John From Cincinnati's dialogue has a surreal quality to it, it's not to be taken as "realistic". Haven't seen this yet but it's probably the same deal.

I thought it was cool overall, made me hopeful mostly. The grinders were both my favorite characters and the storyline that annoyed me most, due to their weird subdued reaction to having a Pick 6 win locked in after Race 7, not cashing the ticket that day (can't 100% trust the guy holding the ticket no matter how well you know him), and being complete bustos before their score. I liked the little touch of Jerry saying "humor me" to make sure they filled out the ticket right.

They didn't cash in the ticket yet cause they didn't wanna get hit for full taxes by the IRS.

Still agree I'd be uncomfortable with just having someone else hold it. Then again, I'd also probably go to a window instead of a machine for a transaction as large as the guy who got the $26K voucher. Just wouldn't want to carry something that valuable and that easily losable or destroyable in my pocket for too long.

Tough for me to comment when I haven't seen the ep yet, but I've (twice) read the pilot script that RG mentioned, and assuming that most/all of it made the final cut:

--there's no Deadwood/JFC dialogue here, more NYPD Blue, if Blue were allowed the occasional F-bomb.

--They're not going to cash the ticket! They cut a deal with the security guard, he will cash it, and be responsible for the taxes (which he plans to later recoup by writing off losing tickets collected from the ground/garbage cans). The guard even promised to throw in a % of the money the IRS will withhold from the winning ticket. Since he's a small-timer, he's going to need to round up that money before the ticket can be cashed. As an added bonus, they haven't officially agreed to that deal yet, and they're using the day to slow-roll the security guy before they let him in on the scam.

--You don't know horse talk? So learn a little! I didn't know any miner/prospector talk when Deadwood started up (plaster cradle?). I *do* know horseracing talk, if you need anything translated, just let me know. Some examples that I know were mentioned in the script:

Apprentice Jockey: a rookie. Why would anyone choose a rookie to ride their horse? A horse carrying an apprentice is allowed to carry several fewer pounds. Apprentices are noted in your program by an asterisk, and since the asterisk (*) looks like a little bug, the young jocks are called "Bug Boys".

Exercise Rider: Rides the horses during workouts, not during races. It's where most jocks start out.

Groom: Does the menial work, mostly cleaning up manure.

Consolation: The Pick-6 is like Power Ball, it's not just winner-take-all. You get paid a lesser amount for 5-of-6. That's the consolation payout. It's rare to just pick one horse in each race, you usually pick more than one, and the tote machine adds up all the combinations and charges you for each. Every horse that you add to your ticket makes the number of combinations go up exponentially. If you put all your eggs in one basket during a particular race and only pick one horse in that race, you have "singled" that horse. If one of your combinations went 6-for-6, a lot of your combinations will have gone 5-for-6, and each of those is worth the consolation payout.

As for why they're not getting too excited about their win, remember a few things:

1. They're splitting it four ways (five, if you count Uncle Sam), so while it's a nice score, it's not "set for life" money.

2. These guys have some miles on them, they've hit exotics before (and "exotic", unlike a "straight" win place or show bet, is a bet that combines more than one horse: exacta, trifecta, Daily Double, Pick 3, Pick 6, etc).

3. Celebrate too much, you might as well hang a sign on your back that says "ROB ME WHEN I LEAVE".

I wasn't even really looking forward to this for some reason. It took about 15 minutes for me to realise this is now my favorite show. I'm shocked by the lackluster reaction in here. It does suck that the degens won in the pilot though, 100% lock of the week they lose the ticket or something.

Ugh, you've got me flashing back to my race/sports days.

PLAYER: I'd like to cash this ticket!

ME: (runs ticket) The game ain't over yet.

PLAYER: But I bet it over 37 points, and they just went over. It can't lose, it's a winner.

ME: Yeah, I understand that, but the machine doesn't know the current score. It only knows the FINAL score, and we can't put that in yet, because the game isn't over yet. So yeah, as long as they play the full sixty minutes, you have a winner, but you can't cash it until the game is over.

PLAYER: What? But I don't want to carry something that valuable and that easily losable or destroyable in my pocket for too long.

ME: (heard that "thinking" a million times before) Let me ask you something. If I gave you the money for that ticket, would you fear misplacing that cash?

PLAYER: Of course not.

ME: Well then, why don't you just pretend that ticket is money? Treat it like money. Put it where you would put your money. You'll be fine.

PLAYER: (walks away annoyed, doesn't feel the slightest bit comforted, is still convinced the ticket might escape and fly away somehow)

No, I think "how they blow the money" is going to be the meat of the season.

There was a short monologue specifically that Dustin Hoffman went through near the end, just before Dennis Farina's character walked into the room that sounded very Deadwood-ish for lack of a better description.

Like I said though, I'll have to watch it again.

Possibly, and that could make for some very interesting tv (esp for us gamblers). Still, that's like the best case scenario for these guys.

A difficult-to-understand vernacular is often an appealing thing. I had no idea what a lot of the terms in Rounders meant back in 1999, nor did anyone else. It's still fascinating to see an ostensibly authentic portrayal of a subculture, including characters speaking in a partially "foreign" language. The Godfather is the same deal, with both English and Italian words/phrases that are never explained or defined (many of which eventually became common knowledge).

I doubt it will be necessary to always understand what bets are being placed etc., and for many people the sense of authenticity will be a big draw.

Not comfortable walking around with that much money either, but if given the choice I'd rather convert it. Money is going to be thicker (especially a wad of bills) and less easily destroyed. Even if it is ripped, as long as you can tape most of it back together it's usable. A ticket is thinner and smaller.

Edit: But either way, I'd still so much rather deal with a person than a voucher machine. Too many things can go wrong with a machine.

I'm going to wait till I see the ep before I comment on this, but if they filmed it like they wrote it, that character had good reason to stay away from the windows and find a remote machine to transact his business.

Yes, this was made pretty clear in the episode.

Oh sure he does, I'm just commenting for myself. Of course that much money probably means less to them than it does me too. I've had those machines malfunction on me and it's my understanding that it's not that rare of an occurance. Wonder what he does in that situation though.

Liked it and the "coming this season" tease at the end makes season look promising.

really wish I knew about this Jan 29 nonsense before I watched it though, would have just waited

Actually I kind of understood the reaction after winning the pick 6. You don't want to run around screaming that you're holding something worth $3m at a horse track. It's not like a casino where there's security everywhere.

The IRS thing is trying to devise a way to get the ticket cashed while paying the minimum in taxes. Some people will cash tickets for others to avoid having to show that kind of income (lottery players do it too for smaller winning tix).

I thought it was fine, it's somewhat difficult to judge a series from the pilot. The gambling jargon didn't bother me, but the mumbling sure did - glad to hear others mention it, I thought there was something wrong with my hearing. The degens reaction didn't bother me, degens gonna degen. Isn't the saying that winning doesn't make a degen feel good, just the action (or something like that)? Speaking of the action, I thought the racing stuff was shot very well - maybe it's just the degen in me, but there are few things more gripping than the horses coming down the stretch with money on the line. Got my heart going a little.

Santa Anita is 15 minutes from my house and the bar in Los Feliz with the "Luck" sign they use on the title card was a onetime haunt of mine. I always feel more supportive of shows I'm regionally connected to for some reason, I assume that's standard.

I like Hoffman and Farina's relationship, looking forward to that. I hope they do more with Nolte and don't make it horribly cliched. The jockey stuff could also be interesting. I will give this show a lot of rope.

I <3 Denis Farina and like what he was doing here. Kinda watched this half falling asleep and I think I liked what I saw, but agree that a lot of the dialog was hard to pick up. If that's just Nolte being Nolte that's fine, but others shouldn't do it as well.

Thanks, but it would be nice to have more of that explained in the actual show.

I do agree that it's super standard for the winners of exotics to sit on the tickets to try and figure out angles to beat the IRS. This happens literally every day. There are people all over racetracks who offer to cash tickets for winners to save tax money.

Anyways, complaint aside I loved the Pilot and am looking forward for the season to start up. Should be great.

I'm in the disappointed camp. Milch gets a full season from me even if it is terrible. I leis like the opening song. It reminded me of one of the Grand Theft Auto openings.

Ugh, missed this. Anyone know if they're going to play the pilot again (in the near future) or if it's on demand? It's not on HBO Go, which makes me think I'm out of luck (har har).

Tell me about it.

I get my HBO series via Comcast's website the following day (using my sister's name/password, she's an HBO subscriber), it's not on there, either.

I feel like a schmuck today. I've told everyone I know to watch this, and now I'm the only one who hasn't seen it.

Tell me it's available OnDemand, and I'll probably add HBO today (not just for this, but "just this" is enough to push me over the line and into action).

I'm from Kentucky and been around the track some so I follow whats going on. Its hard for me to try to imagine what its like for those who are having trouble following it but I thought the first episode was awesome.

YTF, great posts

The sentiment on the IMdB board is about the same, most people so frustrated by not knowing the jargon or the expected behavior of the characters that they give up.

One longtime Deadwood fan (not me) pointed out that's just Milch gonna Milch. You'll get up to speed after a few episodes, don't worry. And when the season is over, and you go back and re-watch the first time, you'll be stunned at how much more you're able to follow the second time around. Really makes his shows re-watchable.

Like I said, I *know* that jargon, and I still caught things the second time I read the script that I had missed the first time around.

BTW, since Gary Stevens is playing Ronnie Jenkins:

Back in the 90s, when I was booking horses in Vegas, four of us agreed to pick a horse, throw in $6 each, and bet a tri-box on the Ky Derby. The sole girl in our group took Gary Stevens' horse "because he's so cute". I wanted her thrown out of our little syndicate.

Good thing we didn't listen to me. Thunder Gulch with Stevens up paid about $52 to win, tri paid $2k, we had it.