Or it could just not matter if naz killed her or not. The whole point is his journey, the way things are handled. The lawyer even says I don't want to know what really happened, it's our story vs theirs. Wouldn't be surprised if we never actually find out if naz was or wasn't the killer definitively.

if it was Naz, wouldn't he have had much more blood on his chest/arms? I don't totally remember but I thought when he took his shirt off his chest was completely clean while all the scratches were on his back

and I still think it's weird he woke up all the way downstairs with his clothes on

I can see motive for the stepfather more than for the random wiseass on the street.

the actor who plays the stepdad was in house of cards and the girlfriend experience so he'll probably be around for a while

it was weird how he said it wasn't her at first. and made a point to say he didn't live there. he's prob the only one who would've had keys to the apartment

Yeah, I know who he is. Hence calling him "Mickey Doyle"(Boardwalk Empire) in my earlier post.

Bill Camp (the lead detective) should win a bunch of awards for this...what a great actor

I think there won't be a trial. No way Naz survives Riker's Island. **** me.

Came here to post that, such a great line.

Harvard shirt is such a dick move

Grunching - after watching episode 1 (haven't watched 2 yet) I'm curious what the hook of this show is and if those of you who have watched both episodes see it going somewhere good.

Like, after watching ep 1, it kinda feels like...okay, so he probably didn't do it, but maybe he did, and even if he didn't do it he's obviously totally ****ed, so it's not like there's a "who's the real killer??" mystery to dive into (seems like the real killer basically got away with the perfect crime, gg to him), and the notion that Nasir might get off seems so ludicrous that it would probably come off as forced. It was entertaining and everything, good acting, but so far it's hard to see how 8 captivating episodes come out of this.

Are there good unseen twists ahead?

I am predicting twists ahead.

twist: naz was also murdered but doesn't know it yet

Episode 2 was captivating even though very little happened. It did a great job of placing the viewer into Naz's situation. It reminds me a lot of Show Me a Hero in that the viewer can really feel what is happening to the characters.

reinforced the fact that i never want to go to jail

Yes, the blood does not lie.

Good start, really good slow burn. I really dug the main title (as a ripoff of TD S1). I say we petition HBO to nuke TD Season 2, and have this be season 2 of TD instead.

Kind of bizarre fascinating speculation in here. I'm pretty sure Dom is right. Throughout the entire first episode, they were showing constant clues that this guy was f***ed if anything bad happened. He was in surveillance cameras, was witnessed with the victim, couldn't keep his mouth shut when the guy insulted him, etc. (probably at least 15 to 20 shots like this that weren't necessarily meant to be obvious, but were prior to the murder) This is playing out almost exactly like a film noir movie. In those movies, there is usually one "noir" moment. That moment is when the main character makes one bad decision, and everything goes wrong from there. In this show, Naz had something like 10 film noir moments. Every decision he made was bad, and his next to final film noir moment was one of the worst (running from the crime scene, which is usually the fateful film noir moment...not calling the cops upon discovery of a body).

For the knife, he had left it on the dash of the cab, and a guy on a motorcycle pulled up next to him. While the guy was looking away, he put it down to his side (not sure how it ended up in his pocket). Someone said it above, but I'm fairly sure they're setting up how an airtight circumstantial crime can be unraveled, because circumstantial evidence doesn't necessarily prove anything. They've already established chain of custody is an issue, and they've totally screwed up how they handled Naz with taking him to the crime scene, as well as leaving the witness in the police station lobby. Box also continued to try to talk to Naz after he invoked, and Stone will be looking at every angle he can to get to reasonable doubt. They're obviously throwing a couple of red herrings in there (two potential other suspects). The two suspects (for the audience) are the stepdad, and the friend of the guy who insulted Naz and ended up brought in for questioning. The default position has to be that Naz did it in his bender, but he had no blood on him when he was in the kitchen. I would think there would be evidence in a shower if he cleaned up, as there's no way Naz would have been coherent enough to clean up very well.

Of different "interest" is the psychology of the victim. Something was off about her when she got in the cab. Everything about that scene almost made her seem suicidal. We also know she is massively self destructive. Her having him stab her hand is insane. I'm interested to see what kind of angles they explore with her over the next few episodes, to see if there is more to the story. They also made sure to show us the stepdad was probably racist.

Bill Camp is really great in this, and it's incredibly fascinating to watch how much great actor business Turturro does. To me, so far, this show is really about Box and Stone (hahaha Oski, nice word choice for his character flaw). There's some kind of issue that makes people skittish about Box, and there seems to be some sort of parallel of Stone as a character similar to Paul Newman's from The Verdict. My guess is this somehow ends up as a redemption story for both of those characters attempting to fix wrongs they created in the past.

nun: I was quoting from "Rounders."

Been too long since I've seen that to remember it. I just didn't know if you knew the character's name when you said the reference.

Nice pun .. as Turturro's character's name is Stone!

And speaking of Episode 2, was nice to see brother Nick on the show. Haven't seen him much since NYPD Blue!

nunnehi - pretty funny point about TD2. If this had just been the show, we woulda all been like "wow, so different of a vibe, yet so great!" and HBO woulda been completely praised for it.

I thought the speech that lead detective gave about the prosecutors and defenders and system needing each other was great. That's why they're down there drinking coffee together breaking balls and I'm up here with you trying to get the truth. I probably woulda just lost it right there on him if I was Naz, just told him everything.

If this show keeps up on showing the inside motivation and angles taken by each component of the system, I'm ****ing locked in. Even the brief meeting between detective and prosecutor was fascinating.

its pretty chilling as someone who has seen the periphery of the system and been involved with quite a few ppl who have experienced it. I would not recommend this show to them I don't think. Many of them have clear PTSD from how they were treated.

This was my first thought. With such a gruesome crime, where blood was splattered all over the walls/lamp/bed, he had none of her blood on him (minus the amount from her hand when she got turned on by him cutting her).

Also, didn't he pick up the knife from the coffee table where they left it downstairs? Seems odd that it is the true murder weapon unless whoever killed her picked it up and put it back in the same spot.

Two episodes in and it's a well made and acted but the whole setup seems pretty contrived and unbelievable.

Second episode was better as there is much less suspension of disbelief.

It seems like it ends up two ways:

1. He killed her (why I have no idea)
2. Someone else killed her most likely the Step Dad or his brother

Maybe it's going to a different place but with the current setup that seems unlikely. It just comes off as a well made show that is going to end up with a fairly predictable ending. Hopefully it will surprise me, but it's got a Broadchurch feel to it.

I thought it was pretty obvious that the knife he took will turn out not to be the murder knife. Dun dun dun!!!

i thought the step dad was a pretty weak red herring. would be real surprised if he did it. his actions didn't seem to indicate much guilt