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Old 06-04-2012, 12:43 PM   #1411
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

Agree compared to previous MM episodes this one lacked something but I think the Lane storyline was pretty well done (and the reasons for his suicide believable for his character. Questioning whether he was in deep enough trouble to go this far are silly if you ask me).

But mostly I really liked the visuals in some of the shots (Lane in his office with snow in the background especially was just beautiful imo)
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:19 PM   #1412
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Originally Posted by theginger45 View Post
I forgot that Don was going to pay off Lane's debts, but I still think the issue of the firm's books will be addressed. I don't know if Don can just sweep it under the rug.
Who is going to want to make it an issue? "Oh really, the dude who just offed himself and cast a terrible shadow on our company may have been involved in some financial impropriety even though our books look fine now and it's by far in everyone's best interests to ignore everything about him? I say we take a closer look..."
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:23 PM   #1413
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Absolutely.



Not sure if I am following. He tried to commit suicide in the car, but it didnt work, hell he even tried to fix the car.

He didnt want to screw anyone. It takes a ****load to commit suicide, you dont just do it to screw them over. He was desperate.

He cant go back to the UK. Lane is a failure, he lost his face, he has nothing left on this planet.
He ****ed up his life and is now taking responsibility for it.

People need to stop saying that commiting suicide is a coward act.
It is in this case. A brave man would have faced the consequences of losing face, losing his job, would have remembered his responsibility to his wife and child, and found a way to start over, even if it meant he couldn't live the successful businessman lifestyle anymore.

The idea that losing material wealth and status mean "you have nothing left" is exactly why Lane committed suicide; it's also an extremely shallow and self-centered way to look at life.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:23 PM   #1414
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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i thought lane made legit points as to why he should have gotten a second chance , and don was completely cold and unsympathetic . i thought don did the right thing as well , but he could have done more considering his own history . (im probably being results oriented since i knew lane would kill himself if resigned , and don probably didnt .
I think it's clear Don did what he did in part because of his history (the whole spiel about "I've had to start over many times, this is the worst part"). I'm sure he honestly believed that. Sadly, Lane did not buy in to that speech! Lane was also basically the CFO of SCDP - having a crook control and manage your books is, you know, cause for *massive* alarm.

I think we view the lens of Mad Men largely through personal relationship dynamics, and while we're in a business setting, we don't think much on the actual business dynamics outside of when SCDP wins/loses new business - really just the pitches.

Don has been a partner at the firm for a very long time. I was surprised as well that Don immediately said "you need to resign"... but it's a perfectly measured response from a long time partner when considering the severity of Lane's crime - Don truly was being kind by giving him an elegant exit, imo. I'm sure he feels some remorse for having a bad read on Lane's mental health... but I doubt this will tear him up inside.

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Originally Posted by D.S. View Post
Really? You don't think that Sally would have gone to Megan if she was home? She only went to Betty because there was nowhere else she could go since Megan was off at an audition.
That's a good point, imo - in fact, really Sally should have been at school when this happened. This imo undercuts Betty's lording over "sometimes a daughter needs her mother" bit.

I like though how this implies that mere circumstance/coincidence drives real emotional experiences. This was meant to be portrayed as a great moment for Betty/Sally's relationship - if Megan were not auditioning, none of this happens for them.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:27 PM   #1415
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

Re: rational reason for suicide - what Dids said above - people who actually commit suicide are not really behaving within "rational" frameworks for the most part. Don't you guys know anyone who committed suicide? I have a good friend who did. Labeling this act as cowardly or irrational or whatever is a very reductive way to look at this.

Obviously it's cruel of Lane to subject his wife and son to his death, but that's also obviously not the way Lane's brain was working at the time he decided to pull the trigger. Shame is very powerful, especially for people like Lane who is clearly mentally unstable. Lane probably thought he was doing his wife/kid a favor by offing himself (as someone noted above, I don't think it's a coincidence that we have a decent understanding of SCDP's life insurance policy for partners).

Last edited by JeremyLinFan; 06-04-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:36 PM   #1416
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

Right, I mean, it's obviously not rational, Lane's choice makes sense for Lane, since he's so tightly wound and image and status are so important to him. I'm just saying the idea that his entire life's worth is wrapped up in his image as a businessman is a major character flaw.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:38 PM   #1417
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Right, I mean, it's obviously not rational, Lane's choice makes sense for Lane, since he's so tightly wound and image and status are so important to him. I'm just saying the idea that his entire life's worth is wrapped up in his image as a businessman is a major character flaw.
nath - gotcha (also your post was to me at least surprisingly unsympathetic since you have a long-observed emo lean imo!).

Definitely it is a major character flaw, but as someone whose own life is a bit too wrapped up in prestige/social standing/what my job is... I definitely have sympathy for Lane.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:41 PM   #1418
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

It's not at all that I'm unsympathetic to Lane. (I might be a little unsympathetic to Spurious for saying "Well, he lost his image, killing himself is the only thing that makes sense now.") I just think it reflects on a limited worldview.

On another note, Sepinwall has an interview up with the actor, Jared Harris, and there's some pretty funny stuff in there.

Quote:
Q: Once you found out, when did the other actors begin to find out, and what conversations did you have with them?

A: No one shares anything. And then heads of department get scripts, a couple of weeks before everybody. John Slattery is normally the person you go to if you want to find out what's going on, A)Because he directs episodes and generally knows stuff, but B)He knows where the early scripts are, and he gets hold of them, and he's totally indiscreet. The only person who's more indiscreet is Matt. He'll go, "I can't tell you, but..." and then tell you. So Rich Sommer came up to me and goes, "Geez, do you know? Have you read the episode?" And I said, "I know what's happening, do you?" You really try to keep it quiet.
Bolded is mine and I thought it was funny because it's exactly how I would picture Roger Sterling acting.

also

Quote:
Q:Are there any specific challenges to being dead?

A: The hardest part was not breaking into a Monty Python song, like, "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" while I'm hanging there in the middle of their shot.
http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...sions-and-fees
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:14 PM   #1419
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

Anyone get the feeling Don goes running to Peggy next week for help? Maybe convinces her to become some sort of partner?
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:39 PM   #1420
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Originally Posted by nath View Post
It is in this case. A brave man would have faced the consequences of losing face, losing his job, would have remembered his responsibility to his wife and child, and found a way to start over, even if it meant he couldn't live the successful businessman lifestyle anymore.

The idea that losing material wealth and status mean "you have nothing left" is exactly why Lane committed suicide; it's also an extremely shallow and self-centered way to look at life.
When someone works their entire life to attain that wealth and status, they don't generally find the prospect of starting back at zero, or worse, very appealing.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:43 PM   #1421
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Instead of dealing like a man with the mess he got himself into, he took the cowardly way out and offed himself in a way that gets the firm's hands as dirty as possible. He's screwing them from the grave now, and unfairly I think.
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Originally Posted by Spurious View Post
Not sure if I am following. He tried to commit suicide in the car, but it didnt work, hell he even tried to fix the car.

He didnt want to screw anyone. It takes a ****load to commit suicide, you dont just do it to screw them over. He was desperate.
I hate to be the I-told-you-so guy, but in this case the interview with Jared Harris that nath mentioned is pretty interesting. Here's what Harris said about his character's motivation:

Quote:
When he sees the car, I think that's when he makes the decision that he's going to kill himself in that car. And once he's decided that — there's vindictiveness about how he goes about it. He hangs himself in the office. He makes it as difficult for them as possible.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:44 PM   #1422
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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When someone works their entire life to attain that wealth and status, they don't generally find the prospect of starting back at zero, or worse, very appealing.
I think todd van der werff over at avclub said it best - that don draper always had this internal self-confidence. he feels he has something special about him. he's self-made and has worked hard to get there.

lane, on the other hand, doesn't really have that. he feels that the people who love him are entitled to having a comfortable life, and he's not going to be able to provide that for them. he's unable to face the shame of being something different than he is. don draper has always lied about his actual identity, but he's never lying about what he is.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #1423
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

re: lane - there is definitely a large measure of spite to killing yourself in your place of employ and leaving a boilerplate resignation.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:09 PM   #1424
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

There was no ****ing way out for Lane and Don only realized it once he had killed himself.

Where was he supposed to go? He basically screwed his former employer out of millions of dollars by running away with the SCD. He then proceeded to screw those as well. Who would employ that kind of person?

There may have been a chance of him taking a shot at starting a new life, but his wife screwed that up as well. I mean, come on, "I just wrote a check" for a Jaguar. I think it´s exemplary for her attitude towards life. There´s no way this kind of woman would accept a husband who just lost all their money and status.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:09 PM   #1425
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
I think todd van der werff over at avclub said it best - that don draper always had this internal self-confidence. he feels he has something special about him. he's self-made and has worked hard to get there.

lane, on the other hand, doesn't really have that. he feels that the people who love him are entitled to having a comfortable life, and he's not going to be able to provide that for them. he's unable to face the shame of being something different than he is. don draper has always lied about his actual identity, but he's never lying about what he is.
Great post, thanks for it. The "mistake" Don made in his advice to Lane is believing that others also have this inner self confidence. It was pretty much the worst way to approach giving Lane advice on how to handle the situation.

Also I think this is a trait in other people Don is either consciously or subconsciously drawn to: I'd say Peggy has it. I think Megan to some extent does as well (I think back on her speech to Don when she proclaims "I don't care if you don't believe in me, cause I know I'm going to make it"... though that could be all for show...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
re: lane - there is definitely a large measure of spite to killing yourself in your place of employ and leaving a boilerplate resignation.
Also to what Joker posted above (what the actor said about Lane's motivations)... perhaps I'm being overly sympathetic, and yes definitely does seem like vindictivemess/spite on Lane's part.
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