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Old 05-29-2012, 08:54 PM   #1261
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Originally Posted by gumpzilla View Post
Huh? I think Don would have a legitimate complaint with her leaving him for several months, let alone the children. I also think it's pretty ridiculous for her to drop "oh hey, I might be out for 3 months, hope that's cool" in that fashion. For all of her protestations, I don't think it had to be obvious that Don signing on to her acting meant signing on to her disappearing for huge chunks of time. Presumably there are a fair number of opportunities that would actually stay in New York.
I was a bit confused about this in the episode, not sure if it was intentional obfuscation on the writer's parts, or just not conveyed clearly:

I think Megan was also angry with Don because she had in fact told him if she got the gig, she'd be gone for a while in Boston. The fact Don was making a stink about it during the episode (and not in the past when he presumably learned Megan leaving was a possibility), is what massively tilted Megan (ie "oh, so you never thought I would actually get the part and have to leave to Boston, did you?").

That read is more sympathetic to Megan, fwiw (and how I sort of "read" that scene).
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:13 PM   #1262
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Old 05-29-2012, 10:22 PM   #1263
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

Yeah considered how Mad Men is written the previous episode with Don and Joan in the bar and Don telling her to go talk to the married man and get lucky and then this episode is not a random coincidence.

Joan going on about having a child and a husband and Don as well, is about the older generations need to cover things up and keep appearences and social politness. The Jauguar guy says "Is she one of those free spirit types?". Times are a changing.

Also, the article Nath posted was pure BS. At no point was Joan angry over the incident. She was instantly flattered/intrigued (rewatch the episode). The only time she gets angry is when Lane comes to talk to her about it and that is because "You are all discussing it?", again, social politness and keeping up appearences.
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:27 PM   #1264
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

Megan just dropping it on Don seemed excessively argumentative. And I disagree saying that Megan's personality chnages are random. She started off as being in love with Don and liking advertising. Then she gets a bit disillusioned at Don's desire to boss her around. Then her father reminds her of her true passion. Now she is beginning to resent Don for his life outlook and desire to control her. She does not really want a husband like Don and her main attraction to him is sexual not intellectual. She continually talks about resentment. 2 episodes left. Would not be surprised if Megan gets pregnant and has an abortion and Don throws her out. This would play on the difference between her and Betty. Betty gets pregnant and decides to take Don back because of it (old school).
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:19 AM   #1265
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

What % did each partner have before Joan's 5%? Pete says the 4 of them minus Don is 75% of the company... does that equate to Don, Roger, and Bert having 25% each, and Lane and Pete having 12.5% each?
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:39 AM   #1266
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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For all of her protestations
Nice work...
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:06 AM   #1267
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Originally Posted by Pudge714 View Post
I think this is the key piece to take from the Linda Holmes piece

Even when she is in the midst of selling her body she turns around and makes him unzip her. She may be one who would sell her body, but the idea that she would do so relatively publicly and only for money is out of character imo.

Unrelated, but has Don always had a tv in his bedroom?
I think Joan doesn't mind (and maybe prefers) being kept in a cage so long as it's sufficiently gilded
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:13 AM   #1268
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Originally Posted by Brian O'Nolan View Post
What % did each partner have before Joan's 5%? Pete says the 4 of them minus Don is 75% of the company... does that equate to Don, Roger, and Bert having 25% each, and Lane and Pete having 12.5% each?
In Season 4 when the partners have to pony up cash to keep the company afloat, Don, Roger, and Cooper all put up $100k and Pete and Lane put up $50k (though Don cover's Pete's $50k), so this agrees with your percentages.

As far as how the addition of Joan's 5% works, it is possible that SCDP would've put an anti-dilution provision for some members in their Corporate Agreement. But since there are so few shareholders and SCDP was very closely held I doubt this was the case. The most likely outcome is that Joan now owns 5%, Pete and Lane each own 11.875%, and Don, Roger, and Cooper own 23.75%. Pretty much anything can be written into a Corporate Agreement, but it is likely they only needed a majority vote to approve the dilution, so the fact that Don didn't vote yes wouldn't matter and his shares would still be diluted.

Also even though SCDP seems to be consistently running into cash flow problems, it is still probably worth a lot of money. As a rule of thumb valuing an ad agency at 75% of its yearly revenues is a standard starting place (though I have no idea if that was true back in the 1960s). In Season 4 after they lose Lucky Strike Lane says that billings are $20 million, so clearly Joan's stake could be worth many times the initial $50k she was offered.

Actually that kind of points out how ridiculous it was for them to offer Joan 5%.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:32 AM   #1269
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

I just realized that when Pete is asked "What if it was Trudy?" we are supposed to remember the publisher...
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:35 AM   #1270
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Originally Posted by Pudge714 View Post
Even when she is in the midst of selling her body she turns around and makes him unzip her. She may be one who would sell her body, but the idea that she would do so relatively publicly and only for money is out of character imo.
She's basically pretty women. In season 1 what she wanted was to be a trophy wife. So she marries Greg even after he rapes her.

Now she wants to be an important part of SCDP.

I don't think she does it for $50k. I think Lane, who was mostly just concerned about being caught embezzling monies, sold her on it with the 5% "offer." Its the idea of being a partner and having a vote that sold her. Watch her proudly walk into the partners meeting when Jaguar calls. I think there is a large component of her being flattered that her body is still so valuable.

I think the idea that we need seasons' worth of backstory to let us know that landing a car company is a big deal is kind of lol. Just watching the ads during the show should be more than enough to tell you that. The two "coolest" characters are both doing car ads in every commercial break. The Hilton and American Airlines stories should help drive the point (prestigious accounts are the path to real money and success) home as well.

Also, RE: Don and Roger throwing around cash. They're probably still loaded from the SC sale, despite their divorces.

I loved Don's storyline. There was so much going on. He's collecting beautiful women. In very different ways he both loves and is attempting to control Peggy, Joan and Megan. Ginsberg writes the line about Don.

Joan destroys his image of her. With Megan he has to choose between ownership (and destroying her youthful exuberance) and beauty, which comes with 3 month trips to Boston. Finally, and maybe worst of all, Peggy leaves.

Last edited by SL__72; 05-30-2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:47 AM   #1271
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Originally Posted by SL__72 View Post
She's basically pretty women. In season 1 what she wanted was to be a trophy wife. So she marries Greg even after he rapes her.

Now she wants to be an important part of SCDP.

I don't think she does it for $50k. I think Lane, who was mostly just concerned about being caught embezzling monies, sold her on it with the 5% "offer." Its the idea of being a partner and having a vote that sold her. Watch her proudly walk into the partners meeting when Jaguar calls. I think there is a large component of her being flattered that her body is still so valuable.
This. She's willing to put up with a lot (being raped, prostituting herself) if she is publicly rewarded (married to someone who she thinks will be a surgeon at a big NYC hospital, a voting partner at SCDP) and the link between the questionable decision and the reward isn't widely known. That's why she wouldn't take Roger's money, it would likely have to remain a secret.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:55 AM   #1272
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

I'm not sure if the ads that run during the show are the same in every market, but I was really struck by the Stella Artois ad that aired when I watched the ep...

The ad is set in a sort of Worlds' Fair where every country is showing off its latest technology/greatest inventions, etc. In the midst of all of these wonderous things, all eyes are fixed on a beautiful blonde woman pouring a beer. The tagline? "She is a thing of beauty"

The more things change, the more they stay the same, I suppose.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:00 PM   #1273
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Funnie View Post
In Season 4 when the partners have to pony up cash to keep the company afloat, Don, Roger, and Cooper all put up $100k and Pete and Lane put up $50k (though Don cover's Pete's $50k), so this agrees with your percentages.

As far as how the addition of Joan's 5% works, it is possible that SCDP would've put an anti-dilution provision for some members in their Corporate Agreement. But since there are so few shareholders and SCDP was very closely held I doubt this was the case. The most likely outcome is that Joan now owns 5%, Pete and Lane each own 11.875%, and Don, Roger, and Cooper own 23.75%. Pretty much anything can be written into a Corporate Agreement, but it is likely they only needed a majority vote to approve the dilution, so the fact that Don didn't vote yes wouldn't matter and his shares would still be diluted.

Also even though SCDP seems to be consistently running into cash flow problems, it is still probably worth a lot of money. As a rule of thumb valuing an ad agency at 75% of its yearly revenues is a standard starting place (though I have no idea if that was true back in the 1960s). In Season 4 after they lose Lucky Strike Lane says that billings are $20 million, so clearly Joan's stake could be worth many times the initial $50k she was offered.

Actually that kind of points out how ridiculous it was for them to offer Joan 5%.
Question - does ad firm "billings" = actual "revenues" to the firm? If so, that does seem like a crazy offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SL__72 View Post
She's basically pretty women. In season 1 what she wanted was to be a trophy wife. So she marries Greg even after he rapes her.

Now she wants to be an important part of SCDP.

I don't think she does it for $50k. I think Lane, who was mostly just concerned about being caught embezzling monies, sold her on it with the 5% "offer." Its the idea of being a partner and having a vote that sold her. Watch her proudly walk into the partners meeting when Jaguar calls. I think there is a large component of her being flattered that her body is still so valuable.

I think the idea that we need seasons' worth of backstory to let us know that landing a car company is a big deal is kind of lol. Just watching the ads during the show should be more than enough to tell you that. The two "coolest" characters are both doing car ads in every commercial break. The Hilton and American Airlines stories should help drive the point (prestigious accounts are the path to real money and success) home as well.

Also, RE: Don and Roger throwing around cash. They're probably still loaded from the SC sale, despite their divorces.

I loved Don's storyline. There was so much going on. He's collecting beautiful women. In very different ways he both loves and is attempting to control Peggy, Joan and Megan. Ginsberg writes the line about Don.

Joan destroys his image of her. With Megan he has to choose between ownership (and destroying her youthful exuberance) and beauty, which comes with 3 month trips to Boston. Finally, and maybe worst of all, Peggy leaves.
This is a great post.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:17 PM   #1274
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

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Originally Posted by gumpzilla View Post
Huh? I think Don would have a legitimate complaint with her leaving him for several months, let alone the children.
But that's a totally different complaint. Of course Don is going to be mad about her leaving him for that long. I'm just saying he doesn't have a lot of ground to complain on the kids' behalf, since they're not even hers.
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Also, the article Nath posted was pure BS.
I didn't post any article.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:24 PM   #1275
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Re: Mad Men - Season 5

nath - I think SaltyPickles is referring to the Linda Holmes NPR piece Pudge posted (which I agree is not very good, although I do like it spurred my thinking on the topic of Joan).
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