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Jessica Jones Jessica Jones

11-27-2015 , 12:17 AM
I'm really confused by that accusation. I think vigilantes are inherently not liberal. Hell, the very concept of superheros could be argued to be right wing (not that I would).

What is "lefto" about this show? characterizing sex with someone under mind control as rape?
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 12:47 AM
shes ****ing a black man guys theres nothing more lefto than that
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 02:10 AM
She just likes the black cock. It's a Marvel edgy character trait.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 03:06 AM
What was socio political? What was lefto? What was ridiculous about episode 7?

Who is TPM? (don't get the acronym)

Loving this show so far!
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 03:35 AM
I thought JJ was a pretty incredible watch. Binged the whole thing in ~3 days.

Kilgrave is by far the most frightening comic book villain I've ever seen. What somebody else said up above was perfect - most ass-holes with a superpower wouldn't be Thanos or Loki and try to take over the whole world. They'd just terrorize everyone around them for sex, money, etc.

More detailed thoughts in the spoiler

Spoiler:
JJ's portrayal of rape/trauma is easily the strongest part of the show. The whole show isn't really about the fight scenes or action (which are kinda weak, as has been noted).

It's about someone coming to terms with the abuse they went through, and then confronting the abuser. Kilgrave has basically every classic domestic-abuser trait. He abuses her in horrific ways, but once she leaves he professes his love. He's sorry! He loves her! He'll do anything to prove it - grand romantic gestures, promises to change, etc.

He even plays the whole "You can teach me to be a better person" line. He makes himself out to be a victim of circumstance, or a bad childhood. He'll change, never hurt her again! They're meant to be together! And besides, Jessica liked it. She's lying when she says she never enjoyed their time together. Etc etc etc. To anyone who has ever been in a abusive relationship, this is poisonously familiar.

David Tennant's portrayal is pretty amazing. It's part of what makes him so viscerally frightening is that you're uniquely helpless and vulnerable with him, obviously. But part of it is that he doesn't seem to really even realize he's doing anything all that wrong - he doesn't even acknowledge responsibility, turning the blame back on to YOU. Tennant even makes him seem vaguely sympathetic at times, which is something most sociopaths are good at - eliciting sympathy.

JJ basically fights two battles. The first is to overcome Kilgrave's mental hold on her - even though he can't control her, her fear of him dominates her psyche. It means that she continually pushes people away, isolates herself, is destructive. She has to work past that. The second battle is the classic 'Batman does not kill' thing where she eventually decides that she's willing to kill him and willing to allow other people to get hurt to do so. The scene where Hope offs herself was pretty stunning.



Overall this isn't the most well choreographed show, and some of the side characters are whiffed on. But the thematic stuff is A+ and far stronger than Daredevil imo.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 04:44 AM
episodes 8 and 9 suddenly got extremely cool!
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
Wtf? Her ptsd from being repeatedly raped by TPM and the effects of a mind control guy stealing people's self control, will and consent was the best part of the show. By a huge margin.
Like I said, I loved the two main characters, the story, the writing, the acting etc. But there were a lot more radical progressive themes in the show than that. I'm not saying I disagree, just saying that the permeance of it got distracting.
Quote:
Im guessing they hated the show on the red pill, huh.
Wouldn't know, not a red-piller.

Spoiler:
However, having Simpson eat red pills to go on his murderous-abusive-boyfriend rages was a bit on the nose, don't you think?

Last edited by Wolfram; 11-27-2015 at 06:18 AM.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 06:28 AM
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But there were a lot more radical progressive themes in the show than that.
Such as?
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemeliminator
Such as?
My memory isn't that great right now (cisplatin side effect) but here goes...
Spoiler:

-Simpson, abusive boyfriend archtype
-A rape survivor being having to do an illegal abortion cause patriarchy
-Luke saying he should have believed Jessica about Killgraves powers (listen and believe ****lord). Although to be fair, she acknowledged immediately that she didn't give him enough reason to.
-The aforementioned rage inducing red pills
-The evil mom making her teen daughter purge (fat shaming)


I liked the fact that this show crushes the Bechdel test. I just didn't like the overly preachy parts. Maybe I'm reading too much into some of the things, maybe it reflects more on me and how exasperated I am by the whole culture war that's currently going on. Just wanted to throw this out here and start a discussion.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 06:42 AM
You're more sensitive than most social justice warriors if those are your complaints.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 06:44 AM
Again, not saying these are "wrong" or "omg this is awful and should never have been in there".
Just saying that given the main theme of the show it felt like a one-note symphony.

I'll stop backpedaling now

Last edited by Wolfram; 11-27-2015 at 06:54 AM.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 10:36 AM
I am no lefty and I hate preachy stuff and never once did I feel the show was preaching to me with the exception of the entire lesbo thing. I thought it was a bit much and seemed heavy handed to me. However, I am a person that loves his hot lesbo action scenes. lol

Anyway, that was such a small component to the show it didn't ruin my enjoyment, afterall it didn't involve the main characters so it was an unneeded side plot.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 10:40 AM
I didn't think Simpson was any kind of archetype. He was a decent guy clearly suffering PTSD (like a lot of people in this show) who sees red when he takes the pills that he was forced/given.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 11:24 AM
Re: Simpson

Spoiler:
Simpson was all around a terrible character but it was well played that his obsessiveness, a first, comes from being a good man felt remorse for doing something bad and determination to make it up to Trish and by helping catch Kilgrave.

It metamorphized into obsessive vigilante justice for Kilgrave eventually leading him to kill a cop, burn down a building, and trying to knock a door down with a scared Trish on the other side (pretty much the visual archetype of an obsessed abusive bf). The first time he tried it (with the ram and his police partner) it's because he felt guilt that he might have killed someone, the second time he didn't have any of those redeemable motives.

Last edited by econophile; 11-28-2015 at 12:44 AM.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 11:35 AM
The thing is Daredevil and JJ have a lot of parallels when it comes to this stuff. JJ is more feminine focused with almost all the main characters being women, focusing on issues of abuse, empowerment, female friendships etc while Daredevil deals with masculinity; almost all the main characters are males, male relationships with women, what it means to be a man, father figures, male friendships, etc.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 11:59 AM
I didn't like the Simpson character. I felt he was poorly written with unclear motives and unexplained behavior. And I don't even remember anything about him having ptsd, which is either my fault or the writers.

Spoiler:

Like e.g. why the hell did he shoot the police guy from the Wire. I didn't get his motivation there at all. Yes, he wants to kill Killgrave. Yes, he's taking these combat drugs that make him hyper. But suddenly becoming a homicidal maniac? It just didn't feel believable.


Really interesting points about the DD-JJ parallells. Hadn't considered that.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 03:16 PM
Lol at the red pills being a reference to the red pill. He is (probably) a character from comics and the pills were a part of it. He could, emphasis could, be in a future show as that character fully under control of the pills.

He was a good guy, it's implied he was genuinely a hero, who spiralled into becoming bad on drugs that altered his mind entirely. He was a soldier and viewed everything through that prism. Collateral damage (Hope) is justifiable when the balance of the scales show he will save hundreds maybe thousands of lives by killing TPM.

His prediction that Jessica would put Trish and others in danger was proven entirely correct in the boat scene. If his powers had worked on JJ who knows how that ends, probably with Jessica heart punching her to death.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miamipuck
I am no lefty and I hate preachy stuff and never once did I feel the show was preaching to me with the exception of the entire lesbo thing. I thought it was a bit much and seemed heavy handed to me. However, I am a person that loves his hot lesbo action scenes. lol

Anyway, that was such a small component to the show it didn't ruin my enjoyment, afterall it didn't involve the main characters so it was an unneeded side plot.
Lol wtf at this too.

It wasn't preaching about lesbianism out backwards moron. It has characters who were gay and spent NO TIME WHATSOEVER celebrating that or drawing attention to it whatsoever.

None of the characters were even archetypical good people.

If this was a straight couple and the lawyer guy was banging his secretary and everything else was identical then you wouldn't have even noticed it let alone make comment.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evildeadalive
What was socio political? What was lefto? What was ridiculous about episode 7?

Who is TPM? (don't get the acronym)

Loving this show so far!
The Purple Man. Kilgrave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by problemeliminator
I'm really confused by that accusation. I think vigilantes are inherently not liberal. Hell, the very concept of superheros could be argued to be right wing (not that I would).

What is "lefto" about this show? characterizing sex with someone under mind control as rape?
Most super heroes are leftish because most comic writers are. Captain America had an entire McCarthy style story where he turned his back on the US government (one of a few times from what I've read). Even in his era he was super progressive.

Superman and Batman are both super lefty and Green Arrow was created as an environmentalist.

FTR though the show is very feminist. The entire series is an allegory on abusive relationships (I don't think it even counts an an allegory) and the sub plot is a love story between two sisters finding each other and the interplay of which is the strongest (the reality is they are strongest together). Some of what TPM did was classic feminist complaints about men, especially the smiling stuff he does to two characters. Its also noteworthy that all the deep characters are women and the men are fundamentally two dimensional.

But also I don't care because this has been how most shows work forever, just with genders and themes being reversed. Its not bad that it's feminist, anyone bothered by that needs to check their privilege or whatever.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
Lol at the red pills being a reference to the red pill. He is (probably) a character from comics
He is:



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and the pills were a part of it. He could, emphasis could, be in a future show as that character fully under control of the pills.
They don't spell it out on the show but his pills are red, white, and blue and obv represent the flag given his comics character is basically a psychotic Captain America. They mention the different pills quickly in the show and they have the same function as the comics: red gives him increased adrenaline, blue brings him down, and white keeps him steady.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill]
Lol wtf at this too.

It wasn't preaching about lesbianism out backwards moron. It has characters who were gay and spent NO TIME WHATSOEVER celebrating that or drawing attention to it whatsoever.

None of the characters were even archetypical good people.

If this was a straight couple and the lawyer guy was banging his secretary and everything else was identical then you wouldn't have even noticed it let alone make comment.
Did you just call me a backyard moron because I didn't like a minuscule portion of a show, when you know nothing about me?

Lol you sure are a whiny pussy, so your critique is basically Boohoo he criticized a show I rub one out to.........
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 07:18 PM
Batman is super lefty? Not Nolan's batman at least.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-27-2015 , 10:59 PM
Frank Miller's Batman would be hard pressed to be anything close to the left of anything.

In any case, in general comic books really haven't been radically Lefty or Righty when they are undertaken by big companies as much as they are the status quo. They are writing stories for primarily children and teenagers after all, not for the proletariat or for your racist grandpa. There are exceptions for individual characters and certain writers put their twist on things of course.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-28-2015 , 01:33 AM
Many Marvel characters are super lefty (X-men, Fantastic Four for example), but others are very right. I'd conversely consider Iron Man to be quite right. All of the versions of Batman I grew up watching would be very right as well.

Ofc Jessica Jones is going to be feminist because it is a powerful female superhero. To say that the show was super liberal or even pushed the liberal agenda would be a huge stretch.
Jessica Jones Quote
11-28-2015 , 02:48 AM
If you guys liked Kilgrave and want more of him, then I'd recommend Broadchurch. Tennant is fantastic in that too. I know some of you have seen it, but not nearly enough! Loved that show.

JJ was good. I did feel sympathy for Kilgrave at times. LOL me I guess.
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