You're right, that was just the stuff I was thinking forward to at the end of the episode, but I didn't have to spell it out.

I don't much care about Jon in the show. I wouldn't say the actor's doing a bad job, but in the book he was one of my favorites. My other favorites, Tyrion, Arya, and Daenerys, are kicking some ass, but even here in Jon's big hero moment I just don't care.

Jon only got really interesting for me in the book when he went out on that ranging. I think he will shine more next season.

Do you guys think they will show Ned die? Or will they do it Arya pov? I'd prefer Arya pov but I think they will show his head rolling on the stairs.

Jon was my least favorite POV by far. Way too cookie cutter good guy for me. I think he's probably been the most difficult to film for the series too. Most of the drama takes place down South in this book and most of what is happening on the Wall is just character development for Jon and slightly moving the plot forward. That's pretty hard to film.

Even in this episode, Jon's screen time was easily cut into 1/3 of what it could have been. There's no talking with Aemon about how the Maester stayed on the wall when his family went to war. Jon doesn't have the dilemma of whether to leave the wall to go South at all, they skip that entire part by having him attack Thorne. There's also not the scene where he does leave and his friends go bring him back because he's been such a great friend.

Given the time constraints necessary for a character like Jon when this story was adapted for TV I think most of the essential points have been shown.

That doesn't happen until the next book after he finds out Ned is dead.

It may be all they can do given their restrictions, but if Jon's character already lacks complexity for being too much of a cookie-cutter good guy, I don't know that taking away the events that give him more depth as a character is wise.

I like him in the books, he's one of my favorite POVs (definitely not least favorite). I wouldn't say he's the deepest character, but he's hardly cardboard. He delves way deep into the morally gray iyam.

Really? I thought it was after Robb calls his vassals and starts marching South.

To me, Jon was always incredibly one dimensional, so I'm not really disappointed that he's being shown as such.

Most people name Jon as one of their favourite characters. I know he one of mine (Along with Tyrion and Ayra, ldo).

Jon first starts thinking about leaving the wall when Robb calls his banners but only leaves when they get a raven about the death of Ned.

I hope they show Ned dying in the next episode. I think that will be more of a shock/better ending than a cliffhanger where everyone will assume he somehow is saved.

ah ok that makes sense.

I'm pretty sure they show Ned die in this episode.

on a totally unrelated note, who else here thinks that GRRM finished Dance with Dragons over 6 months ago, and was holding out for the end of season 1 to increase sales?

what a sick slowroll that would be

I'm pretty sure we'll still see Jon's talk with Maester Aemon , and the last ep. should have him attempt to leave the wall.

Dany's not completely blameless either way but no matter how you look at it , Duur manipulated Dany into having her own child sacrificed for nothing. You really think Dany's reaction should have been " You're right Mirri , you never told me specifically that the horse wasn't the sacrifice , I have only myself to blame " ???

Mirri deserves to burn , whether she poisoned Drogo or not.

No I think her reaction should have been "Wow I'm dumb, I can't believe I made such an emotional decision to go through with this ritual without making any effort to understand or evaluate the risks." All she had to do was ask beforehand "Whose death are we talking about here to pay for Drogo's life?" That's a pretty obvious and important question that even someone in her position should have thought to ask. MMD protested the ritual numerous times and Dany was insistent without showing any concern for the risks or consequences. You can't expect her to keep fighting when Dany makes it clear she doesn't care. Especially considering she's basically a slave still, whether Dany wants to give her the title or not.

I don't understand how Dany's mistakes somehow excuse Mirri Maz Duur's actions in any way. Dany let her emotions cloud her judgment , that doesn't make Mirri any less deceitful or manipulative.

I really don't see how anyone could interpret Dany's burning of Mirri to be unreasonably harsh. Duur's actions don't deserve to be pardoned simply b/c her treachery was facilitated by Dany.

I'm pretty sure that Dany herself understands she's partly responsible for what happened when she burned Mirri. Mirri isn't just a scapegoat.

Con men guilty of fraud don't get reduced sentences if they can prove their victims were suckers and didn't ask the right questions. They're still guilty of fraud , regardless of how easy their victims made it for them.

Have to agree that Mirri deserves to burn,all she had to say to Dany was "if you go through with this you're kid is toast and you're hubby will be a slobbering shell of a man who'll need you to wipe his arse 3 times daily".

Dany isn't blameless since she didn't think things through in an extremely emotional situation,but she's what 15 or 16 years old thats an excuse for her right there.

Well the scene with Illyrio makes it very likely that Varys true goal is reinstating the Targaryens. Creating chaos in Westeros makes a reconquest much easier for Dany.