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Standard bet in tough spot v pro Standard bet in tough spot v pro

10-24-2018 , 12:00 PM
5/5 PLO, button straddle $10. Stacks $1500 effective. I know preflop open may be loose to some, but game is currently playing 6-handed, so I believe this is a good open, though open to thoughts.

I raise to $40 UTG w/ A744
1 rec player calls
1 traveling pro player calls on button.

Flop ($120) A52
Hero bets $100. Rec folds.

If button calls hero, I plan to continue betting on a non-pairing diamond, and any non-(KQJT).

Button raises to $375.
In my mind we're getting into leveling, since my UTG raise should contain almost no 34xx, and button knows that, and knows that I know that. Thoughts on continuing on flop v folding?
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10-24-2018 , 04:06 PM
but he also knows that your UTG raise contains a ton of AA and doesn't care, so..
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10-24-2018 , 07:31 PM
fold pre, fold to the flop raise
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10-24-2018 , 07:36 PM
I'm not sure if this is correct or not pre but I'm mostly only limping 6 handed UTG with this holding 150bbs deep... With plans to play multiway in certain lineups, I think it can flop well multiway with a lot of playability for a cheaper price? Deeper, I am okay with this open.


What do we do if we get pot raised pre OOP? I'm not super enthused about calling a pot bet to play OOP.
On a side question in regards to the button straddle, where you play does action start in the SB with the button straddle on or UTG after BB? Thinking about it more, I'm okay with this open a lot more if SB and BB already folded to you.

I probably down bet on the flop, I think the button getting the discount from the straddle has a lot of 34xx holdings (with/without putting AAxx in your range). I think he's probably going to have a lot wider range on the button/straddle with position and maybe seeing himself superior post flop play and maybe ahead a lot of the time on the flop. Maybe even 55xx/cchh 33xx/cchh?



As played, whats your thinking for the $100 flop bet?
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10-24-2018 , 09:51 PM
I don't get the flop bet, or rather, I don't get the sizing. What is it supposed to be, aces trying to get max value from the only ace left in the deck?

Like, it's hard to hit this flop
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10-25-2018 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus
I don't get the flop bet, or rather, I don't get the sizing. What is it supposed to be, aces trying to get max value from the only ace left in the deck?

Like, it's hard to hit this flop
This. 100 is so bad
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10-25-2018 , 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wait
This. 100 is so bad
What would you do instead?
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10-25-2018 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Fish
but he also knows that your UTG raise contains a ton of AA and doesn't care, so..
Ya exactly so jam over if you think you have fold equity (will he reliably fold 2pair/low sets vs. Obv top set) as you heavily block the straight and also the top set

If you're sure he can fold these hands and are reasonably certain he has enough bluffs in his range then come over top
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10-25-2018 , 12:34 PM
I'd go with folding pre and limping if I don't fold. I think this hand might be a worse open UTG 6-handed vs 9-handed because you are less likely to get the multi-way action that maximizes the value of your suited ace. This hand just doesn't have the potential to hit the flop in a lot of ways that I want to stack off. When I play a hand like this, I am hoping to win a small pot, so I would never raise with it preflop.

On the flop, you can either 3bet bluff or fold. There's no point in calling because there is no good turn card for you, except the 3:diamond.

I'm not sure you should be checking a turn face card if called, since it should be a scare card for a hand like 52xx.

Maybe you should have checked the flop with the possibility of check-raising? If you did have 43xx, this might be a good board to slow-play, since you block his ability to have aces up.
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10-26-2018 , 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdantDevil
What would you do instead?
Way less like 50 or check. Not sure we should be feigning AAxx here or have enough equity to barrel or v-bet. Just bloating the pot potentially 3 way and oop. We just want to get to the turn at least with bdfd and straight draw or moreso the river as cheap as possible.
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10-28-2018 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wait
Way less like 50 or check. Not sure we should be feigning AAxx here or have enough equity to barrel or v-bet. Just bloating the pot potentially 3 way and oop. We just want to get to the turn at least with bdfd and straight draw or moreso the river as cheap as possible.
My reasoning at the time was that I'm ahead most of the time, and want to just take the pot down now. I heavily blocked straights, and even if I did get called, have several nut outs. I also thought that if I sized down, it would be seen as weak, and I'd get raised off the hand, which would be a pretty bad denial of equity.

That being said, I'm inclined to like a x/raise looking back at the hand. A bet/call is probably too light vs a flop raising range, a bet/raise is interesting to think about but also pretty spewy, and a x/call makes turn plays difficult OOP. A x/raise seems good because it blocks the nuts, and we are likely to be able to just take down the pot on the flop. If V calls and turn bricks, we get away, and if V calls and we hit on turn, we're likely getting at least one more bet out of V.

Edit: A52 flops have been challenging lately.
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10-28-2018 , 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdantDevil
and even if I did get called, have several nut outs.
There is no turn card that gives you the nuts.

I tend to go for a small pot strategy on these sorts of flops, since even my OTB limping range has very little 43xx hands in it.
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11-01-2018 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdantDevil
5/5 PLO, button straddle $10. Stacks $1500 effective. I know preflop open may be loose to some, but game is currently playing 6-handed, so I believe this is a good open, though open to thoughts.



I raise to $40 UTG w/ A744

1 rec player calls

1 traveling pro player calls on button.



Flop ($120) A52

Hero bets $100. Rec folds.



If button calls hero, I plan to continue betting on a non-pairing diamond, and any non-(KQJT).



Button raises to $375.

In my mind we're getting into leveling, since my UTG raise should contain almost no 34xx, and button knows that, and knows that I know that. Thoughts on continuing on flop v folding?
If you are going to widen your preflop raising range you should be able to see flop textures and realize On this board the turn really defines your equity much better than the flop. In these instances and esp when oop I try to keep the pot small on the flop when we are up against more than one villain. Obv a lot depends on villains tendencies post flop but when you have a pro with position he is going to raise you with straights sets two pairs and a bunch of connected rundowns like 6789 or TJQK



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11-01-2018 , 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison
I tend to go for a small pot strategy on these sorts of flops, since even my OTB limping range has very little 43xx hands in it.
What about OTB limping/flatting range when you have the button straddle on?

Personally, if I'm the better player OTB I'm flatting most hands against an inferior Villain OOP when I have the button straddle on.
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11-01-2018 , 09:26 PM
Most of the places I play do not allow a button straddle. I can be fairly loose if the pot is likely to be heads-up on the flop, but I won't play garbage in a massively multi-way pot.
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11-02-2018 , 03:32 AM
If you play that kind of hands, especially oop, you 're looking for tough spots yourself,

This kind of hand is a limp at a fullring fishy table, where you can get value from weak flushes if you hit the nuts. But only if you can fold a set of 4s, when facing significant action.

Given your decision preflop, I would check the flop and look what happens.
You can bluffraise if your opponent bets and you can see the turn, keeping the pot small if you don't improve.
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11-03-2018 , 11:43 PM
unless he is raising inexplicably on total bluff hero is in awful shape. Fold. You are now in a situation where you need a hand. It comes down to the hand at that point and you don't have one.
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11-07-2018 , 03:26 PM
One potential balancing idea would be to only continue with the 44 blockers if you have both backdoor flush draws.

Also, it's clearly better to have A446 here than A447.
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11-27-2018 , 03:29 AM
Bet smaller on the flop or check. Once he raises its such a clear fold. The worst he has is A2 which youre in bad shape against not to mention sets/straight. I sometimee get myself into trouble having two blockers thinking "he cant possibly have x, i have two of them". Well they always have it in those cases and my blockers dont mean ****.
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11-27-2018 , 06:55 PM
i like the one stab bigger flop bet to take it down right now. this hand isnt going anywhere oop in this pot. fold if raised and be happy about it.

pre flop i limp or fold it especially with a straddle who wants to play and in position.
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